Re: [Wikimediach-l] Bylaws in French
Bon travail! I've done some proofreading and only corrected some minor errors. In my opinion, your translation is enough in accordance with the original German text. Patrick ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
[Wikimediach-l] Bylaws in French
I forgot to mention that I finished a first draft of the bylaws in French last week. There are a few parts that I am not too happy with, but I prefer to wait a little bit (and maybe get some comments) before changing anything. So anyone who speaks French, understand German, or knows the specific vocabulary of Swiss associations (or all three, even better) is welcome to have a look... I realised that using the English bylaws as the base for the translation (because I am much more comfortable in English than in German) makes the task harder; indeed, in some cases where I was confused by the vocabulary used in the English version, I went back to the German text and found what I was expecting. All the best, Frédéric ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
[Wikimediach-l] Bylaws approved - Roadmap, Board
Hello, as our bylaws are now approved officially (notwithstanding the minor (translation/language) changes that might be still needed), we might do some roadmap planning now. IMHO we should now schedule the Founding Assembly quite soon (keyword Wikipedia Day) and on a date that is working fine for a lot of people. E.g. are now (=the next 2 weeks, starting at Easter Monday) in Zurich the school holidays, the question is whether this means A lot of people are here or A lot of people are not here, otherwise we would need to do it later on probably on a weekend (I don't suppose anybody has time on Thursday, 10pm...). Please make time indicatios at http://ch.wikimedia.org/wiki/Founding_Assembly (yes, the page is not yet created, feel free to write some nice introduction if you want to). What is concerning the board (and I strongly propose to use the term board instead of committee, as you see at WMF, they use board for the real leading panel and committee for various small groups consisting of board and non-board members.): Bylaws say clearly 1 President and 4-6 additional members. Situation is at the moment the following: Nominated as president is Ilario, Robin Schwab has denied his nomination. -- This is probably clear As board, we have at the moment 7 people nominated (see below), the eighth person at the list (Nando) has stroke his nomination due to lack of time (and I'm really sorry for this...). To be frank: This leaves us with one board member too much. The nominated persons: Jürg Wolf Jürg Studer Michael Bimmler Christian Seidl Muvon 53 (Emmanuel Clapasson) Robin Schwab Frédéric Schutz As auditors (should be 2, cannot be board members): Pakeha Nando Frédéric As Nando has accepted his auditors nomination but does not want to be on the board, I think he should be elected auditor anyway. As Pakeha has accepted his auditor nomination but is not listed for board membership, I as well think that his nomination should be confirmed, which leaves us with Frédéric as board member (if he is okay with that) and I would personally appreciate this (for him being a really valuable helper in preparation now AND for him being the representative of Romandie in our team, which would lead to a 3-cultures-board). So still, there are 7 accepted nominations for 6 board places. Now I'd like to ask, if there is anybody who wants to retire his candidature for any reason he should say so now. This would take away the need for a formal election with 6 winners and 1 loser. I also want to stress that also non-board-people can help in various ways in Wikimedia CH (e.g. as non-board-member of committees etc.). Regards Michael -- Regards Michael Bimmler ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Bylaws
On 4/15/06, Frederic Schutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Bimmler wrote: Thanks to everyone for providing explanations... I must admit of being quite surprised about some of the content of the English translations; I am not a specialist of English vocabulary about legal matters, but some sentences indeed look strange. PS: I hope we have not any more strange things in the bylaws, we may have to make a final proofreading session at the founding assembly, Please, please, pretty please, don't do that. The last time I was involved in the founding assembly for an Association (also involved with the free software/free content world), we did that, even though the proposed bylaws had been thoroughly discussed by email beforehand. We spent _hours_ going over every single word of each article, because people suddenly got interested in little details they had not noticed before, it was a _nightmare_. And this was purely a French-speaking association, not a national-level association with translations in 5 languages of the bylaws... we should really make sure everything is correct _before_ we start organising the founding Assembly (and if we modify the bylaws, we have to ask the Wikimedia Foundation for approval again). But we shall do more rounds of proofreading before the assembly, for sure. Okay, this is actually what I wanted to say. Don't even know anymore why I said during founding assembly, I wanted to say before founding assembly. Sorry... because when we have once voted the bylaws, we cannot just fix these things quickly but have to call together the members assembly each time... What happenend for the association mentioned above was that during the first 3 years, at each regular annual general meeting, we made some changes to the bylaws, to adapt them to the practical experiences we made during the year; now, they are quite stabe and well-adapted to the real life. This is to be expected, and should not be a problem. Sure, but we should make them as good as possible... Frederic Michael Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l -- Regards Michael Bimmler ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Bylaws
On 4/14/06, Frederic Schutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jürg Studer wrote: The minutes are to be made available to the Association members not more than two months after a decision has been made, otherwise the committee constitutes itself. I understand the general idea, but my dictionaries do not know any meaning of the work constitute that would fit this sentence (neither does the website http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=constitute). maybe this helps: constituer Hum... no, it does not really help... Looking at the German text, it may also be the word otherwise that confuses me: I don't really see how the two parts of the sentence are related. Are we saying that the comitee must provide the minutes, but that otherwise, it is free to get organised as it wants ? It's definitely mixed up: First sentence = Committee (hey, by the way, why are we always using the term commitee instead of board?) must send its minutes to its members at the latest 2 months after. (Full stop). Then there comes another sentence, meaning The Committee does organise it self, i.e. on the first associations, roles will be distributed (president is voted separatly by member's association, but roles like treasurer, secretary, vice-president, PR etc. are chosen by the board/committee itself). This doesn't have anything to do with the last sentence, I don't even see why it's in this clause/part of the paragraph, the german Im übrigen which was translated into Otherwise, was somehow intended to indicate This last sentence has not so much to do with the other sentences here but the otherwise does not show this anymore. My proposal: move the otherwise the committee constitutes itself (german: Im übrigen etc.) away from §10.3 to §10.1 (The committee consists of a president and 4 – 6 further members), there it fits much better. Regards Michael PS: I hope we have not any more strange things in the bylaws, we may have to make a final proofreading session at the founding assembly, because when we have once voted the bylaws, we cannot just fix these things quickly but have to call together the members assembly each time... Frederic ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l -- Regards Michael Bimmler ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Bylaws
i fully agree, i would even give it to some native english speaker after the strangenesses are sorted out. i would also agree to change it to board instead of comittee, btw :) rupert. On 4/14/06, Michael Bimmler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/14/06, Frederic Schutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jürg Studer wrote: The minutes are to be made available to the Association members not more than two months after a decision has been made, otherwise the committee constitutes itself. I understand the general idea, but my dictionaries do not know any meaning of the work constitute that would fit this sentence (neither does the website http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=constitute). maybe this helps: constituer Hum... no, it does not really help... Looking at the German text, it may also be the word otherwise that confuses me: I don't really see how the two parts of the sentence are related. Are we saying that the comitee must provide the minutes, but that otherwise, it is free to get organised as it wants ? It's definitely mixed up: First sentence = Committee (hey, by the way, why are we always using the term commitee instead of board?) must send its minutes to its members at the latest 2 months after. (Full stop). Then there comes another sentence, meaning The Committee does organise it self, i.e. on the first associations, roles will be distributed (president is voted separatly by member's association, but roles like treasurer, secretary, vice-president, PR etc. are chosen by the board/committee itself). This doesn't have anything to do with the last sentence, I don't even see why it's in this clause/part of the paragraph, the german Im übrigen which was translated into Otherwise, was somehow intended to indicate This last sentence has not so much to do with the other sentences here but the otherwise does not show this anymore. My proposal: move the otherwise the committee constitutes itself (german: Im übrigen etc.) away from §10.3 to §10.1 (The committee consists of a president and 4 – 6 further members), there it fits much better. Regards Michael PS: I hope we have not any more strange things in the bylaws, we may have to make a final proofreading session at the founding assembly, because when we have once voted the bylaws, we cannot just fix these things quickly but have to call together the members assembly each time... Frederic ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l -- Regards Michael Bimmler ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Bylaws
On 4/14/06, rupert thurner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i fully agree, i would even give it to some native english speaker after the strangenesses are sorted out. i would also agree to change it to board instead of comittee, btw :) Well, the English translation is really there for us to lok at. And I speak the three languages, and I am totally unable to understand fully the German sentence (and hence its English translation) to help Frédéric with the French. Someone did a funky copy/paste from the German bylaws there ;-). Delphine ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Bylaws
On 4/14/06, Delphine Ménard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/14/06, rupert thurner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i fully agree, i would even give it to some native english speaker after the strangenesses are sorted out. i would also agree to change it to board instead of comittee, btw :) Well, the English translation is really there for us to lok at. And I speak the three languages, and I am totally unable to understand fully the German sentence (and hence its English translation) to help Frédéric with the French. Someone did a funky copy/paste from the German bylaws there ;-). /me pleads for non-guilty but accountable (as nobody here really checked what has been copied in the very early phase of Bylawswriting) Delphine ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l -- Regards Michael Bimmler ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Bylaws
Michael Bimmler wrote: My proposal: move the otherwise the committee constitutes itself (german: Im übrigen etc.) away from §10.3 to §10.1 (The committee consists of a president and 4 – 6 further members), there it fits much better. +1 Frederic ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Bylaws
I am going forward with the translation of the bylaws in French... first draft is getting there ! I have, however, a question about par. 10.3: The minutes are to be made available to the Association members not more than two months after a decision has been made, otherwise the committee constitutes itself. I understand the general idea, but my dictionaries do not know any meaning of the work constitute that would fit this sentence (neither does the website http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=constitute). Any precise reference ? Frederic ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Bylaws
On 2/26/06, Manuel Schneider [Everything Open] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: vote -- I think, Delphine will take care of this request. Angela has subscribed to this ml so in case board would like to make a statement... Delphine is already informed, I talked to her yesterday. More information about the assembly later... I need some time now to relax. Wikimedia Foundation Board and chapters committee are on the case. :-) and have noted the concerns about being able to act as a chapter as soon as possible in order to help with the Wikipedia Day. Be patient. Cheers, Delphine -- ~notafish ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
[Wikimediach-l] Bylaws
Question: As we now have the english version of bylaws online, shall we send a formal note to Chapters commitee (chaptercommittee-l AT wikimedia DOT org) to request approval of the bylaws? Are there any objections? -- Regards Michael Bimmler ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Bylaws
Yes ;) You should send a formal note and ask (informally) to someone in the board to take care about the decision (otherwise it could require time). Ilario Michael Bimmler wrote: Question: As we now have the english version of bylaws online, shall we send a formal note to Chapters commitee (chaptercommittee-l AT wikimedia DOT org) to request approval of the bylaws? Are there any objections? -- Regards Michael Bimmler ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Bylaws
On 2/26/06, Ilario Valdelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes ;) You should send a formal note and ask (informally) to someone in the board to take care about the decision (otherwise it could require time). Hm, I just sent a mail some days ago to Delphine and she told me that ChapCom can now decide on chapters-bylaws without need for a board vote -- I think, Delphine will take care of this request. Angela has subscribed to this ml so in case board would like to make a statement... Well, then I will now send the mail. Regards Michael Ilario Michael Bimmler wrote: Question: As we now have the english version of bylaws online, shall we send a formal note to Chapters commitee (chaptercommittee-l AT wikimedia DOT org) to request approval of the bylaws? Are there any objections? -- Regards Michael Bimmler ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l -- Regards Michael Bimmler ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Bylaws
vote -- I think, Delphine will take care of this request. Angela has subscribed to this ml so in case board would like to make a statement... Delphine is already informed, I talked to her yesterday. More information about the assembly later... I need some time now to relax. Greets, Manuel -- - All-Things-Open Projektgruppe [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCM d-- s:- a? C++$ UL P+ L+++$ E- W+++$ N+ o-- K- w--$ O+ M+ V PS+ PE- Y+ PGP+ t 5 X R UF !tv b+ DI D+ G+ e h r y++ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
[Wikimediach-l] bylaws
Hi I just read your bylaws (english translation) In the statement of purpose, paragraph 1 refers to open content. Paragraph 4 to free content. There might be a confusion later on about this part. If you want to publish DVD or books, as the german verein is doing, it might be best to avoid using free in a way which might be confusing, but rather to refer to content under a free licence. Of course, no licence should be explicitely named, or only as an example of one such free licence. cheers Ant ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
