Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of three)

Gregory Maxwell wrote: Because adding the parents produces non-sense results because categorization is a flawed concept except at the most fuzzy and course levels: Reality doesn't fit into neat nested boxes (not even the N-dimensional ones created by multiple parentage). The two primary

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of three)

David Gerard wrote: 2008/12/4 Tim Landscheidt: Add to that the maintenance costs because you would want to ensure that if someone who is not aware of the concept of atomic categories adds a [[Category:Manhattan]] to something he adds [[Category:New York]], [[Category:East Coast of the

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of three)

Aryeh Gregor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like for you to be right. But switching from the present category system to atomic categories is not as straight forward as having a few bots run over all existing cats. Of course, humans would have to manually specify which new categories each old

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of three)

2008/12/4 Tim Landscheidt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Add to that the maintenance costs because you would want to ensure that if someone who is not aware of the concept of atomic categories adds a [[Category:Manhattan]] to something he adds [[Category:New York]], [[Category:East Coast of the United

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of three)

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 7:12 PM, Daniel Schwen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Uhm, yeah.. except that intersection of atomic categories are not vaporware. We had proofs of concept for that and the interest was marginal. Vaporware with proofs of concept is still vaporware. The definition of vaporware

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of three)

2008/12/4 Aryeh Gregor [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Gregory Maxwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With a JS hack I had my tool integrated to the site. The AJAX calls went to the toolserver, but as far as the users could see it was running on the site. No one cared: It didn't

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of three)

We had a pretty lengthy discussion about this before the summer, and the consensus seemed to be that a fulltext-based approach looked most viable. I actually wrote an extension that does that, and promised to release it soon; that was quite a few months ago, and I never got around to it. I'll

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of three)

We had a pretty lengthy discussion about this before the summer, and the consensus seemed to be that a fulltext-based approach looked most viable. So how does this take care of deep indexing non-atomic categories? =How will this extension be even remotely useful for let's say commons? This

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of three)

2008/12/3 Daniel Schwen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm sure this thread will die out soon. Half of the participants will again be soothed by the promise of some easy solution just barely beyond the horizon, while the half that realizes that said solution _cannot possibly work_ without a radical

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of three)

Daniel Schwen schreef: We had a pretty lengthy discussion about this before the summer, and the consensus seemed to be that a fulltext-based approach looked most viable. So how does this take care of deep indexing non-atomic categories? Err.. what? Please explain what you mean by

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of three)

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Daniel Schwen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So how does this take care of deep indexing non-atomic categories? =How will this extension be even remotely useful for let's say commons? That's a social problem, and so of secondary importance. Once a technical mechanism

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of three)

the other useful technical innovations that get introduced. All it would take is running some bots for a while to switch to the better system, not a big cost for a large wiki like Commons with plenty of bot operators. I'd like for you to be right. But switching from the present category

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that)

2008/12/3 Aerik [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm with you - we've shown feasibility in large datasets with a lucene based approach, and I think we need to roll it out and test it with real users on real data. We need a new lucene index and a user interface (needs to be defined) suitable for average

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of three)

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Daniel Schwen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like for you to be right. But switching from the present category system to atomic categories is not as straight forward as having a few bots run over all existing cats. Of course, humans would have to manually specify

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of three)

how things are categorized. As long as category intersections remain vaporware, there's no incentive to change. A technical fait accompli will bring about change. Uhm, yeah.. except that intersection of atomic categories are not vaporware. We had proofs of concept for that and the interest

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of three)

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 8:12 PM, David Gerard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The last time will be when there's a feature end-users can use without going off to the toolserver. With a JS hack I had my tool integrated to the site. The AJAX calls went to the toolserver, but as far as the users could see

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of three)

Gregory Maxwell wrote: With a JS hack I had my tool integrated to the site. The AJAX calls went to the toolserver, but as far as the users could see it was running on the site. No one cared: It didn't produce useful results because of how categories are used, and when I suggested changing

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that)

curse of never getting anything into the core might strike ;-) Doesn't he have commit access? True, but is gems never seem to get enabled... -- [[en:User:Dschwen]] [[de:Benutzer:Dschwen]] [[commons:User:Dschwen]] ___ Wikitech-l mailing list

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that .. to the power of two)

Perhaps just category intersection isn't enough. I was thinking about a tool that would allow intersection of various article data, including the categories. For example, suppose that I am maintaining [[1991 in art]]. I would want to find all articles that link to [[1991]] and are in a

Re: [Wikitech-l] The never-dying topic: category intersection (been there done that)

Daniel Schwen wrote: I find it a little frustrating that this wheel gets reinvented so often. My tool was used a couple of times after I posted it, and now as maybe one user per day (from a quick glance at the Users of the Swedish Wikipedia are increasingly starting to use Duesentrieb's