Re: [Wikitech-l] I hate to be that guy

2012-06-28 Thread James Alexander
This is linked from their but just to make it easier to find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenkins_(software). Jenkins is actually very cool and also helps run (and keep track of) the consumers for our donation service for example. James On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 2:16 PM, Chris McMahon

Re: [Wikitech-l] I hate to be that guy

2012-06-28 Thread Antoine Musso
Le 27/06/12 22:06, Derric Atzrott a écrit : So I hate to be that guy who doesn't know the simple things, but what is Jenkins? The server has come up in discussion a few times since I joined this mailing list about a month ago. Actually if there is a Wiki page where these sorts of things are

Re: [Wikitech-l] Sorry if inconvenient : SVG-to-png rendering on Wikimedia

2012-06-28 Thread Derric Atzrott
I just wonder: Why do we not simply transmit the SVG image, but render a png for an SVG-file to the browser? Historic reasons? I think it is because there is no good way for us to know if a browser supports SVG images other than having a list of user-agents that do and checking that way. We

Re: [Wikitech-l] Sorry if inconvenient : SVG-to-png rendering on Wikimedia

2012-06-28 Thread Achim Flammenkamp
I just wonder: Why do we not simply transmit the SVG image, but render a png for an SVG-file to the browser? Historic reasons? I think it is because there is no good way for us to know if a browser supports SVG images other than having a list of user-agents that do and checking that way.

Re: [Wikitech-l] Sorry if inconvenient : SVG-to-png rendering on Wikimedia

2012-06-28 Thread Tei
On 27 June 2012 14:38, Petr Kadlec petr.kad...@gmail.com wrote: On 27 June 2012 13:33, Achim Flammenkamp ac...@uni-bielefeld.de wrote: 2) I wonder why the SVG-graphic devolpers use such an improper(?) rendering- philosophy. All these articfacts on the Iran-flag would have been avoided, if

Re: [Wikitech-l] Sorry if inconvenient : SVG-to-png rendering on Wikimedia

2012-06-28 Thread Neil Harris
On 28/06/12 12:13, Derric Atzrott wrote: I just wonder: Why do we not simply transmit the SVG image, but render a png for an SVG-file to the browser? Historic reasons? I think it is because there is no good way for us to know if a browser supports SVG images other than having a list of

Re: [Wikitech-l] Speed up tests, make @group Database smarter

2012-06-28 Thread Chris McMahon
P.S.: On a related note ... one could think about mocking the database as a whole for PHPUnit tests. Thereby, one would get rid of unnecessary database coupling for unit testing, get better control/detection of side effects, and really solve the database performance problem for unit tests

Re: [Wikitech-l] Inline styles trouble on the mobile site

2012-06-28 Thread Tei
You can always have a line on the bottom of a mobile page, with Do the page render correctly?. And somehow use it to flag pages that render incorrectly. Wooot, perhaps this flagging may even save the user agent of the visitor using the link. -- -- ℱin del ℳensaje.

Re: [Wikitech-l] Inline styles trouble on the mobile site

2012-06-28 Thread Martijn Hoekstra
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Tei oscar.vi...@gmail.com wrote: You can always have a line on the bottom of a mobile page, with  Do the page render correctly?. And somehow use it to flag pages that render incorrectly.  Wooot, perhaps this flagging may even save the user agent of the visitor

Re: [Wikitech-l] Sorry if inconvenient : SVG-to-png rendering on Wikimedia

2012-06-28 Thread Achim Flammenkamp
I can imagine how this can be a problem. Thin lines than in your original render have 1 pixel width, will be removed or suffer a strong you misunderstood. In the original SVG there are no thin lines. The thin line was introduced/inserted by buggy down-rendering to the wanted size. (There are

Re: [Wikitech-l] Inline styles trouble on the mobile site

2012-06-28 Thread Tei
On 28 June 2012 16:37, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Tei oscar.vi...@gmail.com wrote: You can always have a line on the bottom of a mobile page, with  Do the page render correctly?. And somehow use it to flag pages that render incorrectly.  

Re: [Wikitech-l] Sorry if inconvenient : SVG-to-png rendering on Wikimedia

2012-06-28 Thread Brion Vibber
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 4:13 AM, Derric Atzrott datzr...@alizeepathology.com wrote: I just wonder: Why do we not simply transmit the SVG image, but render a png for an SVG-file to the browser? Historic reasons? I think it is because there is no good way for us to know if a browser supports

Re: [Wikitech-l] Inline styles trouble on the mobile site

2012-06-28 Thread Brion Vibber
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Krinkle krinklem...@gmail.com wrote: So, stripping inline styles: * will not fix bad layouts made with tables (which are probably at least as common as bad layouts made with inline styles). * will break unrelated things, because inline styles are not directlty

Re: [Wikitech-l] Inline styles trouble on the mobile site

2012-06-28 Thread Jon Robson
To summarise my position: # I think the beta of the mobile site is a great place to __review__ the styles we have across Wikipedia and as well as resolving many of the problems of the mobile site it would also result in a much more maintainable Wikipedia. # I dislike inline styles and don't think

Re: [Wikitech-l] Inline styles trouble on the mobile site

2012-06-28 Thread Bartosz Dziewoński
2012/6/28 Jon Robson jdlrob...@gmail.com: # things rely on those inline styles whether we like it or not. No... They rely on styles not //inline// styles. This is my main problem with the current setup! I believe the majority of things done in inline styles that are essential would be better

Re: [Wikitech-l] Inline styles trouble on the mobile site

2012-06-28 Thread Jon Robson
What would sort of make sense would be classes like wrong, no or decrease, which would all have the same red color, but would mean different things. But now we're heading for unnecessary obstacles to editors... Yes. Agreed. I just picked an arbitrary class name here. The only point I was

Re: [Wikitech-l] Inline styles trouble on the mobile site

2012-06-28 Thread Derric Atzrott
What would sort of make sense would be classes like wrong, no or decrease, which would all have the same red color, but would mean different things. But now we're heading for unnecessary obstacles to editors... Yes. Agreed. I just picked an arbitrary class name here. The only point I was

Re: [Wikitech-l] Inline styles trouble on the mobile site

2012-06-28 Thread Bartosz Dziewoński
2012/6/28 Derric Atzrott datzr...@alizeepathology.com: I like the idea of class names for different things, and I don't think that it would unduly burden the editor.  As they are already using inline styles, I think that using classes shouldn't be an undue burden.  It is no harder to say

Re: [Wikitech-l] Inline styles trouble on the mobile site

2012-06-28 Thread Jon Robson
Assuming you remember all the class names, which ones will work and which will not (or, worst case, you have documentation handy). I'd hope documentation would help with identifying class names and one could imagine extending the visual editor for the most common ones in future. Why would

Re: [Wikitech-l] Inline styles trouble on the mobile site

2012-06-28 Thread MZMcBride
Derric Atzrott wrote: I like the idea of class names for different things, and I don't think that it would unduly burden the editor. As they are already using inline styles, I think that using classes shouldn't be an undue burden. It is no harder to say class=someClass than it is to say

[Wikitech-l] Technical hurdles for enabling $wgHtml5 on Wikimedia sites?

2012-06-28 Thread Rob Lanphier
Hi all, We have a longstanding request to enable HTML5 on all sites: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27478 We've had it enabled on mediawiki.org for ages, with minimal death and mayhem. There are two issues listed as blockers: Bug 30525: Search bar icon/button slightly lower

Re: [Wikitech-l] Inline styles trouble on the mobile site

2012-06-28 Thread Krinkle
Replies inline: On Jun 28, 2012, at 7:38 PM, Jon Robson wrote: # things rely on those inline styles whether we like it or not. No... They rely on styles not //inline// styles. This is my main problem with the current setup! I believe the majority of things done in inline styles that are

Re: [Wikitech-l] Technical hurdles for enabling $wgHtml5 on Wikimedia sites?

2012-06-28 Thread Max Semenik
On 29.06.2012, 1:11 Rob wrote: We have a longstanding request to enable HTML5 on all sites: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27478 We've had it enabled on mediawiki.org for ages, with minimal death and mayhem. There are two issues listed as blockers: Bug 30525: Search bar

Re: [Wikitech-l] Speed up tests, make @group Database smarter

2012-06-28 Thread Platonides
Am 28/06/12 01:41, Christian Aistleitner schrieb: Hi Daniel, On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 09:59:19PM +0200, Daniel Kinzler wrote: * MediaWikiTestCase will notice this group and use temporary tables instead of the wiki database's actual tables. The temporary tables are re-created for every

Re: [Wikitech-l] Sorry if inconvenient : SVG-to-png rendering on Wikimedia

2012-06-28 Thread Platonides
It is not an SVG! It is a band-width problem, in this case. I needed about 10 minutes real-time to download this image at full-size to my computer, but can work anyway in parallel. Vector-grafics should have been FAR MORE compressibale then jpeg or other snapshots from random/real-word

Re: [Wikitech-l] Technical hurdles for enabling $wgHtml5 on Wikimedia sites?

2012-06-28 Thread K. Peachey
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Rob Lanphier ro...@wikimedia.org wrote: We've had it enabled on mediawiki.org for ages, with minimal death and mayhem.  There are two issues listed as blockers: We don't have half of the delautomated crap/delinsAnti-vandal and random other tools/ins running

Re: [Wikitech-l] Sorry if inconvenient : SVG-to-png rendering on Wikimedia

2012-06-28 Thread Achim Flammenkamp
Plus, vector graphics compress *much better* than raster, but they are *much slower* presenting them. Try filling a web page of svg flags, and see how much it takes to load. Or compare times showing times for raster and vectorial. Exactly this I do often: Displaying the 208+30 national flags

Re: [Wikitech-l] Technical hurdles for enabling $wgHtml5 on Wikimedia sites?

2012-06-28 Thread Helder .
Anomie pointed out on enwiki's Village Pump[1] the problem with the Cite extension mentioned on https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27478#c12 Will $wgExperimentalHtmlIds be set to false? How is it configured on mw.org? Best regards, Helder [1]