RE: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Mugur Padurean wrote: It may be useful for some of you guys to know that on some major Linux distros ( Fedora, Debian, Slackware) in all browsers available through the KDE or Gnome fonts appear to be rendered slightly bigger than on WIN. Up to 5 % bigger By default, X on my SUSE machine

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Roger that, command. Over :)) Felix Miata wrote: I think if you digest http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5869 and http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6153 you'll find represented the behavior you've described. Linux simply does not have the same fonts as doze, unless you've imported

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Hey The MS true type fonts core fonts are available for any system (that supports TTF) to download via http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=19259 I'm sure they are available elsewhere but I pick most of my eyecandy stuff for KDE from here. If you specify sans-serif as the fallback font,

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Mugur Padurean wrote: As an added note to Linux fonts: It may be useful for some of you guys to know that on some major Linux distros ( Fedora, Debian, Slackware) in all browsers available through the KDE or Gnome fonts appear to be rendered slightly bigger than on WIN. Up to 5 % bigger.

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

James Bennett wrote: On 10/3/05, Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most Linux systems have neither Verdana nor Arial installed, at least not by default. True, but these days nearly every Linux distribution ships the free Bitstream Vera font set, which includes a sans-serif with metrics

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Because it's an ugly bastard of Helvetica? I'm no typographist but my sister absolutely hates that font. However, Windows donsn't really have any nice looking fonts anyways. T. R. Valentine wrote: On 04/10/05, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMO arial isn't so hot for the web

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

I don't remember the site I read, but there wasn't a fallback for Arial! It had percentages of fonts by user for Windows, Mac, and Linux. You could fallback to Geneva for Mac, but there wasn't anything for Linux. IMO arial isn't so hot for the web anyway. On 10/4/05, Samuel Richardson [EMAIL

RE: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

From: Samuel Richardson So if the Linux fallback for Verdana is Bitstream Vera Sans, what's the Linux fallback for Arial? Agfa Monotype had this to say in a press release about Red Hat licencing their fonts: Albany, Cumberland and Thorndale are from Agfa Monotype's library of

RE: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

From: Samuel Richardson So if the Linux fallback for Verdana is Bitstream Vera Sans, what's the Linux fallback for Arial? Another answer could be Helvetica, I think that Arial is actually a copy of Helvetica (a much older typeface). -- Peter Williams

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Right, but what I was saying was that none of those fonts are common on Linux machines. So if you make a font family that starts with Arial, be prepared to have 3 or 4 fallbacks for Linux. On 10/4/05, Peter Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Samuel Richardson So if the Linux fallback for

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

On 10/4/05, Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've installed a lot of Linux distros, and surprisingly few install Vera by default, though they usually include them on the installation media. Weird. I've not had a Linux install anytime in the past couple of years that didn't install the

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

As an added note to Linux fonts: It may be useful for some of you guys to know that on some major Linux distros ( Fedora, Debian, Slackware) in all browsers available through the KDE or Gnome fonts appear to be rendered slightly bigger than on WIN. Up to 5 % bigger. Even if you import fonts

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

On 04/10/05, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMO arial isn't so hot for the web anyway. OK, I'd like to hear some opinions. A lot of the pages I produce need, for technical reasons, a Unicode font (especially the 0370–03FF, 0400–04FF, 0500–052F, 1F00–1FFF, and 2000–206F ranges). I

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

James Bennett wrote: On 10/4/05, Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've installed a lot of Linux distros, and surprisingly few install Vera by default, though they usually include them on the installation media. Weird. I've not had a Linux install anytime in the past couple of years

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Hi there, This may help with your font compatibility problem. http://www.visibone.com/font/FontResults.html Cheers, Peter Johnson --- Peter Johnson Macromedia Flash Developer Missing Link NZ Ltd. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---

RE: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

From: T. R. Valentine On 04/10/05, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMO arial isn't so hot for the web anyway. So my questions are: what is wrong with Arial (Arial Unicode MS in particular)? are there better font alternatives? Typographers say it is badly hinted. My take on

RE: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 5 October 2005 9:20 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point. Hi there, This may help with your font compatibility problem. http://www.visibone.com/font/FontResults.html Cheers, Peter Johnson

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Hi Lisa, The survey was not conducted by my company, it was done by Visibone who I imagine will probably make a whole lot of money off this post, but nevertheless. Check out their website http://www.visibone.com, they sell a whole lot of visual aids for web dev people. The Tests thats they

RE: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Hi Lisa, Peter, On 05-10-2005at 09:25, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Herrod, Lisa) wrote: Thanks for posting this to the list, I'm sure it will be interesting to many of us on list... -Original Message- From: Peter Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] This may help with your font

[WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Hi all, I have been reading few articles (like http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html) about avoiding Verdana font. But I cant get the whole point in this issue. I mean: I understand that if you use a tiny font-size (like 10px or 0.64em or 64% applied to the body) you will

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Julián Landerreche said: I have been reading few articles (like http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html) about avoiding Verdana font. But I cant get the whole point in this issue. So, please, can someone point me what am I missing about avoiding Verdana? Honestly, I pretty

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Julián Landerreche said: So, please, can someone point me what am I missing about avoiding Verdana? Verdana has a larger x-height than most fonts and thus *appears* larger than other fonts at the same specified size. My guess is it is roughly one or two pixels or a point size larger than, say

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Hi Julián, There's no reason to avoid Verdana. In the example webpage you referenced, the author's chief concern seems to be with what happens to copy legibility if Verdana is *not* installed. As Verdana comes bundled with a significant number of Microsoft products and the Windows

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Mike Brown said: Thus a user without Verdana installed (not extremely likely currently) I'm sure theres around 20% of people who disagree with you on that one Mike ;-). I think the real issue behind a lot of font sizing problems that articles like this one are referring to stem from IE 5 days.

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Julián Landerreche wrote: I have been reading few articles (like http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html) about avoiding Verdana font. But I cant get the whole point in this issue. I mean: I understand that if you use a tiny font-size (like 10px or 0.64em or 64% applied to

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

As Verdana comes bundled with a significant number of Microsoft products and the Windows operating system [...] With Mac OS X too. The 'attractiveness' of Verdana is matter of preference [...] it was designed specifically for onscreen legibility Exactly. More info:

RE: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

: Tuesday, 4 October 2005 10:43 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point. Hi all, I have been reading few articles (like http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html) about avoiding Verdana font. But I cant get the whole point

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

. Graham Cook www.uaoz.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julián Landerreche Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2005 10:43 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point. Hi all, I have been reading few

RE: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Yes - that was my point Graham Cook www.uaoz.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Samuel Richardson Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2005 12:00 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point. Surely

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

On 10/3/05, Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most Linux systems have neither Verdana nor Arial installed, at least not by default. True, but these days nearly every Linux distribution ships the free Bitstream Vera font set, which includes a sans-serif with metrics similar to Verdana. Also,

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 23:09:58 -0400, James Bennett wrote: Verdana, Bitstream Vera Sans, Lucida Sans, sans-serif Now that is something useful to know! Thank you! What specifically is the Lucida Sans addressing? warmly, Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/ Brisbane,

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

On 10/3/05, Lea de Groot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What specifically is the Lucida Sans addressing? Most distributions these days ship the Bitstream Vera fonts, but not all. Lucida Sans, however, is about as universal as you can get on Linux and gives you one last fall-back to aim at before

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

I think there's something fundamentally wrong when a discussion about what font you should and shouldn't use is brought up in the context of web standards. Web Standards is nice but to me it seems like its becoming this 'Eliteist' approach, and if you don't follow the guidelines exactly

RE: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Buddy Quaid Sent: Tue 4/10/2005 13:32 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point. I think there's something fundamentally wrong when a discussion about what font you should

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point. I think there's something fundamentally wrong when a discussion about what font you should and shouldn't use is brought up in the context of web standards. Why? Discussion of that allows us to make informed design/typography decisions

RE: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

From: Buddy Quaid But like a tree, some of these discussions go out on a long limb and lose focus of the big picture. Each member goes down a different branch at different times on the various projects they work on. If we allow them and others to extend that branch at that time, over time

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

James Bennett wrote: On 10/3/05, Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most Linux systems have neither Verdana nor Arial installed, at least not by default. True, but these days nearly every Linux distribution ships the free Bitstream Vera font set, which includes a sans-serif with

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

At 08:32 PM 10/3/2005, Buddy Quaid wrote: I'm not trying to offend anybody here at all but so many posts about whether or not to use Verdana is just boring. Boring! Holy smokes, every technical field is boring unless the details happen to fascinate you. Boring isn't an attribute of

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

So if the Linux fallback for Verdana is Bitstream Vera Sans, what's the Linux fallback for Arial? Samuel Richardson Buddy Quaid wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most Linux systems have neither Verdana nor Arial installed, at least not by default. True, but these days nearly every

Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.

Am I the only one that fills this way? Yes. Fonts are extremely important to web design and web standards. They have a lot to do with readability and user friendliness. It's not elitist.