RE: SPAM: RE: [WSG] Site check with a problem and something new
Hmmm... I don't have a certain answer, but I have a questions; Why are you trying to get your website to work on IE on a Mac?? (OS9)?? You know that IE on a mac has been ditched in the new OSX (Tiger). And Safari is the dominent Browser. You should have a message appear on your site for any users that are using MAC IE that says Download Firefox or Use Safari, don't use this piece of junk browser Just my 2 pence. It's a fair comment. Im sure others agree. Absolutely not, you should be making your site accessible to everyone regardless of which browser/os they use and if you can't make it work, make sure it degrades gracefully. Messages saying anything like that are entirely what web standards are against. Get FireBug? Get censored... Don't you dare tell me what browser to use. would be my answer and you'd lose a customer. It may be okay for blogs and personal sites but many of us do real business websites and there are still people with old browsers that have money to spend or need access to information (be it Government or any other information). If we take your example above, why not tell everyone not using IE 6 on Windows to go away and get the dominant browser/os? The question was a perfectly legitimate one. Peter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: SPAM: RE: [WSG] Site check with a problem and something new
Well of course I'd make the site degrade gracefully in IE on a Mac, id use the @import reference so that older browsers would just render the content, im all for web standards, but if you are having major problems with IE on a Mac, which a lot of developers do have, then id say just render the content and don't even let IE Mac render the CSS. Plus hint to the user of that browser, that there are better modern browsers out there. I mean at the end of the day, we want to all make accessible websites. Don't we want our users to at least slowly progress to using more modern browsers, so that we as developers can start to use more modern code? Its not a crime to mention to the user that they could benefit from upgrading their browsers. Be it IE6 (Win)/Firefox/Opera or Safari. The web has to move forward, as does web standards, and a lot of browsers aren't web standard. We don't want to be held back by older browsers. Why do you think Apple ditched IE for Mac in their new OS? Mainly because it was a pile of junk. - Absolutely not, you should be making your site accessible to everyone regardless of which browser/os they use and if you can't make it work, make sure it degrades gracefully. Messages saying anything like that are entirely what web standards are against. Get FireBug? Get censored... Don't you dare tell me what browser to use. would be my answer and you'd lose a customer. It may be okay for blogs and personal sites but many of us do real business websites and there are still people with old browsers that have money to spend or need access to information (be it Government or any other information). If we take your example above, why not tell everyone not using IE 6 on Windows to go away and get the dominant browser/os? The question was a perfectly legitimate one. Peter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: SPAM: RE: [WSG] Site check with a problem and something new
Hi Josef, Have you looked at the page? I'm using @import and I'm *only* having problems with one particular OS... Mac OS9 and IE5X! AFAIK the page looks fine on all other browser/OS. Regarding the hint. Isn't it so that if you put a this page is best view or Update your browser... or worse OS then the page becomes inaccessible by definition. Right? The rapport I've got tells me that the background in the sidebar get painted with huge chunks of yellow blocks. It's not so you can't use the site... it just don't look right. If there is a cure I would love to hear about it. Otherwise I'll leave it and hope I don't get visitors with that OS/browser combo. I'm sorry for the rather harsh reply but I think this is a list where accessibility plays a big role so I really don't understand these replys suggesting that I put a sign on my page. Kim Josef Dunne wrote: Well of course I'd make the site degrade gracefully in IE on a Mac, id use the @import reference so that older browsers would just render the content, im all for web standards, but if you are having major problems with IE on a Mac, which a lot of developers do have, then id say just render the content and don't even let IE Mac render the CSS. Plus hint to the user of that browser, that there are better modern browsers out there. I mean at the end of the day, we want to all make accessible websites. Don't we want our users to at least slowly progress to using more modern browsers, so that we as developers can start to use more modern code? Its not a crime to mention to the user that they could benefit from upgrading their browsers. Be it IE6 (Win)/Firefox/Opera or Safari. The web has to move forward, as does web standards, and a lot of browsers aren't web standard. We don't want to be held back by older browsers. Why do you think Apple ditched IE for Mac in their new OS? Mainly because it was a pile of junk. - Absolutely not, you should be making your site accessible to everyone regardless of which browser/os they use and if you can't make it work, make sure it degrades gracefully. Messages saying anything like that are entirely what web standards are against. Get FireBug? Get censored... Don't you dare tell me what browser to use. would be my answer and you'd lose a customer. It may be okay for blogs and personal sites but many of us do real business websites and there are still people with old browsers that have money to spend or need access to information (be it Government or any other information). If we take your example above, why not tell everyone not using IE 6 on Windows to go away and get the dominant browser/os? The question was a perfectly legitimate one. Peter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: SPAM: RE: [WSG] Site check with a problem and something new
Hi Kim, Ive opened your page in IE for Mac, versions 5.0 and 5.1.7 and it seems exactly equal to what I see in Firefox on Windows. Do you want me to send a printscreen to your email? Roberto Kim Kruse wrote: Hi Josef, Have you looked at the page? I'm using @import and I'm *only* having problems with one particular OS... Mac OS9 and IE5X! AFAIK the page looks fine on all other browser/OS. Regarding the hint. Isn't it so that if you put a this page is best view or Update your browser... or worse OS then the page becomes inaccessible by definition. Right? The rapport I've got tells me that the background in the sidebar get painted with huge chunks of yellow blocks. It's not so you can't use the site... it just don't look right. If there is a cure I would love to hear about it. Otherwise I'll leave it and hope I don't get visitors with that OS/browser combo. I'm sorry for the rather harsh reply but I think this is a list where accessibility plays a big role so I really don't understand these replys suggesting that I put a sign on my page. Kim Josef Dunne wrote: Well of course I'd make the site degrade gracefully in IE on a Mac, id use the @import reference so that older browsers would just render the content, im all for web standards, but if you are having major problems with IE on a Mac, which a lot of developers do have, then id say just render the content and don't even let IE Mac render the CSS. Plus hint to the user of that browser, that there are better modern browsers out there. I mean at the end of the day, we want to all make accessible websites. Don't we want our users to at least slowly progress to using more modern browsers, so that we as developers can start to use more modern code? Its not a crime to mention to the user that they could benefit from upgrading their browsers. Be it IE6 (Win)/Firefox/Opera or Safari. The web has to move forward, as does web standards, and a lot of browsers aren't web standard. We don't want to be held back by older browsers. Why do you think Apple ditched IE for Mac in their new OS? Mainly because it was a pile of junk. - Absolutely not, you should be making your site accessible to everyone regardless of which browser/os they use and if you can't make it work, make sure it degrades gracefully. Messages saying anything like that are entirely what web standards are against. Get FireBug? Get censored... Don't you dare tell me what browser to use. would be my answer and you'd lose a customer. It may be okay for blogs and personal sites but many of us do real business websites and there are still people with old browsers that have money to spend or need access to information (be it Government or any other information). If we take your example above, why not tell everyone not using IE 6 on Windows to go away and get the dominant browser/os? The question was a perfectly legitimate one. Peter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: SPAM: RE: [WSG] Site check with a problem and something new
Hi Roberto, Thanks. I guess you didn't open it OS9? So unless that's the case it should not be necessary. Thanks though :-) Kim Ive opened your page in IE for Mac, versions 5.0 and 5.1.7 and it seems exactly equal to what I see in Firefox on Windows. Do you want me to send a printscreen to your email? Roberto ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: SPAM: RE: [WSG] Site check with a problem and something new
Kim, Is it possible to open the versions I mentioned with OS X? I dont think so I opened it in the 0S9 emulation provided by OSX But, now, Ive tried also an old ibook I have here, with only OS 9.2 and IE 5.1 and I do not see absolutely nothing that qualifies as a background painting bug (or painted with huge chunks of yellow blocks). Your list menus seem exactly the same to me as they appear on windows even when we roll over them. I can not say the same about your navigation bar though, which move over your content layer, after clicked once, at 800x600px. Just out of curiosity, what kind of rapport system are you using? Roberto --- Kim Kruse wrote: Hi Roberto, Thanks. I guess you didn't open it OS9? So unless that's the case it should not be necessary. Thanks though :-) Kim Ive opened your page in IE for Mac, versions 5.0 and 5.1.7 and it seems exactly equal to what I see in Firefox on Windows. Do you want me to send a printscreen to your email? Roberto ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: SPAM: RE: [WSG] Site check with a problem and something new
For what it's worth, if a user is browsing on OS9's IE, then they have little choice--Firefox, Safari, etc. are all only available on OSX. So to suggest that someone upgrades from Mac IE5 is to suggest they go out and shell out a cool grand for a new machine that runs a new OS. So maybe go a bit easier on those (not so many) few... As for the bug, Kim I too cannot see any evidence of it. I'm viewing it on Mac IE 5.1.5, OS 9.1. Could you post a screenshot of what you're seeing? HTH, John While you're correct in noting that IE on OS9 has been ditched, poor OS9 users have little recourse: Safari, Firefox, the whole lot are only available on OSX. So it isn't simply a matter of upgrading their browser; it's about upgrading their OS. Which is often a matter of upgrading their hardware... To be fair, I'm not insisting therefore that you design to IE OS9. Merely be informed of why you support it or not... Personally, I try with reasonable effort to get it to work, because I'm still on it daily on my test box. Half of my office is still on OS9, so as far as I can see it's still a prevalent browser... On 6/14/05, Roberto Gorjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kim, Is it possible to open the versions I mentioned with OS X? I don't think so I opened it in the 0S9 emulation provided by OSX But, now, I've tried also an old ibook I have here, with only OS 9.2 and IE 5.1 and I do not see absolutely nothing that qualifies as a background painting bug (or painted with huge chunks of yellow blocks). Your list menus seem exactly the same to me as they appear on windows even when we roll over them. I can not say the same about your navigation bar though, which move over your content layer, after clicked once, at 800x600px. Just out of curiosity, what kind of rapport system are you using? Roberto --- Kim Kruse wrote: Hi Roberto, Thanks. I guess you didn't open it OS9? So unless that's the case it should not be necessary. Thanks though :-) Kim I've opened your page in IE for Mac, versions 5.0 and 5.1.7 and it seems exactly equal to what I see in Firefox on Windows. Do you want me to send a printscreen to your email? Roberto ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
