Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
It's a pretty solution, but it doesn't word-wrap...at least not in Safari. Make your browser window thinner and see what happens? What I'm doing is no different except that I'm going through the trouble of having php count the number of tabs and then using that information to insert the correct class. If there are more than 5 \t's I just stop it there. This information is coming out of a database so it's no trouble going this route... Oh, I'm not using pre either...v On Jun 1, 2005, at 1:08 AM, Lachlan Hardy wrote: Vaska.WSG wrote: I've been reading around (via Google) and I find others with similar problems but no solution. Is there a solution to this? Whenever I present code in a page, I use something similar to the method Simon Willison put forward by in July 2002: http://development.incutio.com/simon/numbered-code-experiment.html Works for me. I've yet to find a better method (although if someone has one...) Cheers Lachlan ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
Ahh, cool. Looks like the white-space property is supported well enough.
http://www.westciv.com/style_master/academy/browser_support/element_type.html
I'll go back to using for code blocks then. :)
Thanks for pointing out the property, Martin.
BenOn 5/31/05, Martin J. Lambert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: Ben>> After some testing, I think it's best to stick to using for> blocks of code. won't preserve whitespace, so your code's> not going to have any indenting unless you use a lot of non-breaking
> spaces which will inflate the size of your file and not to mention> a real be a pain in the butt to add.How about using the element (since it IS code), and usingthe following styles:
code {display: block;white-space: pre;}In my very quick test just now it seems to work in Firefox and IE,so I'd assume it works pretty much anywhere. This gets you the best
of both worlds - the semantics of and the presentation of.--Martin Lambert[EMAIL PROTECTED]**
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Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
Vaska.WSG wrote: I've been reading around (via Google) and I find others with similar problems but no solution. Is there a solution to this? Whenever I present code in a page, I use something similar to the method Simon Willison put forward by in July 2002: http://development.incutio.com/simon/numbered-code-experiment.html Works for me. I've yet to find a better method (although if someone has one...) Cheers Lachlan ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
Hi Patrick, - Original Message - From: "Patrick Lauke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 1:43 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap? But to reiterate: has semantic connotations - the content it marks up is a heading. , on the other hand, does not provide any indication of what's inside, only how it's displayed. -- Yes, absolutely. BUT what I'm harping on about here is that if you set your basic font in the body (or somewhere up there :-) you could then use in the html without qualifying it in any way with CSS, so long as you are happy with the way the browser displays it. (and it's not IE, of course!). You probably wouldn't do this, but it illustrates the point. The says 'this is a heading' no more, no less, and the says 'this is some preformatted text', no more, no less. Neither really tells you 'exactly' what it's going to look like. OK, you 'expect' the stuff to be larger (which it isn't always) and you 'expect' the to appear in Courier font with white space etc, but you personally haven't defined either. The 'formatting' is done elsewhere (in this case, by the browser's interpretation, NOT in the html markup, nor indeed in the CSS in this example. So I can't see the difference. OK, I'm not going to labour this or do it to death, but I can't grasp this. :-) Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
I think this will do the trick. It's a little odd, and I'll have to
test this out more, doing a preg_match_all to determine how many \t's
there are (so we know what class='tab$number' to use), but I think in
most instances this will suffice.
Thanks for pointing this solution out...v
On May 31, 2005, at 4:41 PM, Ingo Chao wrote:
Vaska.WSG schrieb:
Actually, because I can't really find a way to get by on the
word-wrap issue and also the use of indents (as they appear in the
code) I've done all of this in php without code or pre. It uses
's for the tabs (preg_replace("/\t/"...). ...
If you are curious this is what an output looks like ...
1
Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
Vaska.WSG schrieb:
Actually, because I can't really find a way to get by on the word-wrap
issue and also the use of indents (as they appear in the code) I've
done all of this in php without code or pre. It uses 's for the
tabs (preg_replace("/\t/"...).
...
If you are curious this is what an output looks like ...
1
RE: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
> From: Ben
>
> After some testing, I think it's best to stick to using for
> blocks of code. won't preserve whitespace, so your code's
> not going to have any indenting unless you use a lot of non-breaking
> spaces which will inflate the size of your file and not to mention
> a real be a pain in the butt to add.
How about using the element (since it IS code), and using
the following styles:
code {
display: block;
white-space: pre;
}
In my very quick test just now it seems to work in Firefox and IE,
so I'd assume it works pretty much anywhere. This gets you the best
of both worlds - the semantics of and the presentation of
.
--
Martin Lambert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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RE: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
> Vaska.WSG > I've > done all of this in php without code or pre. CODE is still the semantically correct element to wrap around this type of content, though... > What I'm doing is meant purely for presentation...it's a fast > way for a > person to view a script and try to determine where a bug might live > (via the line number). > 1 2 > 3 function > rowNumber($i) Presentational, indeed...why not something like (provided your code always starts from line 1, as support for CSS driven OL numbering other than the default seems a bit flaky, still)
Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
Thanks for the discussion folks...
Actually, because I can't really find a way to get by on the word-wrap
issue and also the use of indents (as they appear in the code) I've
done all of this in php without code or pre. It uses 's for the
tabs (preg_replace("/\t/"...). Aside from creating a few more regex
rules to deal with inputting slashes and the like, it seems to work
well enough.
What I'm doing is meant purely for presentation...it's a fast way for a
person to view a script and try to determine where a bug might live
(via the line number).
If you are curious this is what an output looks like (I'm not sure if
the 's will encode when I send this email). If there is time I
might add some simple syntax highlighting rules to the script...
1 $i
";
7
} elseif (($i >= 10) && ($i <= 999)) {
8
return
"$i
";
9
} else {
10
return
"$i
";
11}/>
12}
13/>
14?>
On May 31, 2005, at 2:43 PM, Patrick Lauke wrote:
designer
Surely, the fact that denotes 'preformatting' means that the
formatting has occurred 'somewhere else' and not in the body
of the html.
So, in that sense, in what way is 'presentational' any
more than all
CSS is 'presentational?
Aeh...I'm not quite following your reasoning here. But to pick up
just on the last bit: CSS is *meant* for presentation, while HTML
should only mark up *content*. That's where I see the problem:
denotes how something looks, rather than what it is (which
is the whole idea of "semantic" markup).
To take a simple example, if I set
CSS rules in
defining characteristics, is using that tag in the
html 'purely
presentational' or is it different to ?
You'd use only if the text you're marking up is an actual
heading (unless you use to mark up "oh, i want that text nice
and big", in which case you're abusing for presentational
purposes).
But to reiterate: has semantic connotations - the content it
marks up is a heading. , on the other hand, does not provide
any indication of what's inside, only how it's displayed.
Sometimes, strikes me just like a css declaration,
except that you
don't have to declare what the formatting is in the header :-)
And that's a bad thing; we want separation of content and presentation.
Patrick
Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
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RE: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
> designer > Surely, the fact that denotes 'preformatting' means that the > formatting has occurred 'somewhere else' and not in the body > of the html. > So, in that sense, in what way is 'presentational' any > more than all > CSS is 'presentational? Aeh...I'm not quite following your reasoning here. But to pick up just on the last bit: CSS is *meant* for presentation, while HTML should only mark up *content*. That's where I see the problem: denotes how something looks, rather than what it is (which is the whole idea of "semantic" markup). > To take a simple example, if I set > CSS rules in > defining characteristics, is using that tag in the > html 'purely > presentational' or is it different to ? You'd use only if the text you're marking up is an actual heading (unless you use to mark up "oh, i want that text nice and big", in which case you're abusing for presentational purposes). But to reiterate: has semantic connotations - the content it marks up is a heading. , on the other hand, does not provide any indication of what's inside, only how it's displayed. > Sometimes, strikes me just like a css declaration, > except that you > don't have to declare what the formatting is in the header :-) And that's a bad thing; we want separation of content and presentation. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
After some testing, I think it's best to stick to using for blocks of code. won't preserve whitespace, so your code's not going to have any indenting unless you use a lot of non-breaking spaces which will inflate the size of your file and not to mention a real be a pain in the butt to add.
Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
- Original Message - From: "Patrick Lauke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To split hairs, though, the problem with seems to be that it appears very much like a presentational, rather than a semantic element. Any semantics seem to be inferred by the fact that the content is preformatted, which is a rather weak argument...by the same rationale, one might as well say that , , etc are semantic. Heck, even the spec's definition 'The PRE element tells visual user agents that the enclosed text is "preformatted".' http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/text.html#edef-PRE strikes me as purely presentational. Patrick --- Patrick, Surely, the fact that denotes 'preformatting' means that the formatting has occurred 'somewhere else' and not in the body of the html. So, in that sense, in what way is 'presentational' any more than all CSS is 'presentational? To take a simple example, if I set CSS rules in defining characteristics, is using that tag in the html 'purely presentational' or is it different to ? If so, why is that? Why is one 'semantic', and not the other? Sometimes, strikes me just like a css declaration, except that you don't have to declare what the formatting is in the header :-) N.B. I'm not arguing here, I'm asking the question! Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
On 5/31/05, Prabhath Sirisena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I would do it this way:int foo (int a, int b) { /* do stuff here */ } And use the css:code.codeblock
{ display: block;}Is this OK, or do you find anything unacceptably wrong here? Looksbetter than a PRE to me.
Looks ok, but I'd probably just create a generic .block style that could be used for any tag.
.block {display: block}
Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
Fair point, was indented purely for presentation. However, it does have a small bit of semantic significance, insofaras it says "whitespace is important". Sure, it indents that in terms of presentation but the implied meaning is not irrelevent (especially in the context of languages where the whitespace is important (Pyton? Possibly). This is the way in which I think of it at the moment, until XHTML2's element gains support. replaces for code and effectively 'fixes' the problem. Although, all that said, does the tag apply default white-space formatting in the major browsers? If so, wrapping it in a would be ample. I seem to remember that for some reason didn't format the whitespace without CSS, though. Ben On 5/31/05, Patrick Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ben Ward > > is semantically pretty sound > > for this, since code is pre-formatted and some languages are > > white-space sensitive, for example. > > To split hairs, though, the problem with seems to be that it > appears very much like a presentational, rather than a semantic element. > Any semantics seem to be inferred by the fact that the content is > preformatted, which is a rather weak argument...by the same rationale, > one might as well say that , , etc are semantic. > > Heck, even the spec's definition > > 'The PRE element tells visual user agents that the enclosed text is > "preformatted".' > http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/text.html#edef-PRE > > strikes me as purely presentational. > > Patrick > > Patrick H. Lauke > Webmaster / University of Salford > http://www.salford.ac.uk > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > -- http://www.ben-ward.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
I would do it this way:
int foo (int a, int b) {
/* do stuff here */
}
And use the css:
code.codeblock {
display: block;
}
Is this OK, or do you find anything unacceptably wrong here? Looks
better than a PRE to me.
Prabhath
http://nidahas.com
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RE: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
> Ben Ward is semantically pretty sound > for this, since code is pre-formatted and some languages are > white-space sensitive, for example. To split hairs, though, the problem with seems to be that it appears very much like a presentational, rather than a semantic element. Any semantics seem to be inferred by the fact that the content is preformatted, which is a rather weak argument...by the same rationale, one might as well say that , , etc are semantic. Heck, even the spec's definition 'The PRE element tells visual user agents that the enclosed text is "preformatted".' http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/text.html#edef-PRE strikes me as purely presentational. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
Prabhath - is an inline element, so while is should probably be included somewhere in marking up code, you need something else on the outside of it to create the block. is semantically pretty sound for this, since code is pre-formatted and some languages are white-space sensitive, for example. Vaska - Unfortunately there's nothing in the CSS2 spec that I know of to do what you want (see: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/text.html#white-space-prop). You can either obey the white-space in the source code or automatically wrap to the box, but not both. The equivalent part of the CSS Level 3 spec is massively improved though; providing additional white-space values and additional properties for controlling individual parts of white-space handling. "white-space" itself now effectively sets different combinations of values for these new properties. I have no idea what Opera/Firefox/Safari/K support is like for this yet, but I believe that the text module is pretty stable spec wise, so expect some implementations sooner rather than later, if not already. See: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-text/#white-space If implementations do exist, you might be able to compromise your design by using a CSS2 compatible white-space setting and overflow scrolling for any long lines, then set the CSS3 value afterwards for better handling in newer browsers as and when they support it. Cheers, Ben On 5/31/05, Prabhath Sirisena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm trying to make a page that will display some source code. The PRE > > tag works very will with retaining \t and \n but I can not find a way > > to make it wrap words. Words fly off the monitor... > > Shouldn't you be using the code tag instead? It's a semantically better > option. > > However, the problem will still remain. > > Prabhath > http://nidahas.com > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > -- http://www.ben-ward.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Style PRE with word wrap?
> I'm trying to make a page that will display some source code. The PRE > tag works very will with retaining \t and \n but I can not find a way > to make it wrap words. Words fly off the monitor... Shouldn't you be using the code tag instead? It's a semantically better option. However, the problem will still remain. Prabhath http://nidahas.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
