[zfs-discuss] Re: Unbootable system recovery

2006-10-08 Thread Ewen Chan
P.S. I don't know if it makes any difference, but I did find that the scan order has changed somewhat. For example, right now, it starts the scan for the drives from sd10 (i.e. [EMAIL PROTECTED],0) whereas before; the drive scan started with sd1 (i.e. [EMAIL PROTECTED],0). Would it make a

Re: [zfs-discuss] A versioning FS

2006-10-08 Thread Ian Collins
David Dyer-Bennet wrote: Actually, save early and often is exactly why versioning is important. If you discover you've gone down a blind alley in some code, it makes it easy to get back to the earlier spots. This, in my experience, happens at a detail level where you won't (in fact can't)

[zfs-discuss] Re: Re: Snapshots of an active file

2006-10-08 Thread Anton B. Rang
I'm showing my lack of knowledge on this one but I thought SAM-FS could do something like this. Anyone know for sure? It's not quite the same, and not out-of-the-box. SAM-FS has the ability to create an archive copy of files onto disk or tape when the files are closed after having been

[zfs-discuss] Re: Unbootable system recovery

2006-10-08 Thread Anton B. Rang
The scan order won't make any difference to ZFS, as it identifies the drives by a label written to them, rather than by their controller path. Perhaps someone in ZFS support could analyze the panic to determine the cause, or look at the disk labels; have you made the core file available to Sun?

Re: [zfs-discuss] A versioning FS

2006-10-08 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 06:22:01PM -0700, Joseph Mocker wrote: Nicolas Williams wrote: Automatically capturing file versions isn't possible in the general case with applications that aren't aware of FV. Don't snapshots have the same problem. A snapshot could potentially be taken when a

Re: [zfs-discuss] A versioning FS

2006-10-08 Thread Erik Trimble
Joerg Schilling wrote: Erik Trimble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In order for an FV implementation to be useful for this stated purpose, it must fulfill the following requirements: (1) Clean interface for users. That is, one must NOT be presented with a complete list of all versions unless

Re: [zfs-discuss] A versioning FS

2006-10-08 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Sat, Oct 07, 2006 at 01:43:29PM +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote: The only idea I get thast matches this criteria is to have the versions in the extended attribute name space. Indeed. All that's needed then, CLI UI-wise, beyond what we have now is a way to rename versions extended attributes to

Re: [zfs-discuss] A versioning FS

2006-10-08 Thread Wee Yeh Tan
On 10/7/06, Ben Gollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 6, 2006, at 6:15 PM, Nicolas Williams wrote: What I'm saying is that I'd like to be able to keep multiple versions of my files without echo * or ls showing them to me by default. Hmm, what about file.txt - ._file.txt.1, ._file.txt.2,

Re: [zfs-discuss] A versioning FS

2006-10-08 Thread Jonathan Edwards
On Oct 8, 2006, at 21:40, Wee Yeh Tan wrote: On 10/7/06, Ben Gollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 6, 2006, at 6:15 PM, Nicolas Williams wrote: What I'm saying is that I'd like to be able to keep multiple versions of my files without echo * or ls showing them to me by default. Hmm, what

Re: [zfs-discuss] A versioning FS

2006-10-08 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 05:25:17PM -0700, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: No, any sane VC protocol must specifically forbid the checkin of the stuff I want versioning (or file copies or whatever) for. It's partial changes, probably doesn't compile, nearly certainly doesn't work. This level of work

Re: [zfs-discuss] A versioning FS

2006-10-08 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 09:27:14AM +0800, Wee Yeh Tan wrote: On 10/7/06, David Dyer-Bennet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've never encountered branch being used that way, anywhere. It's used for things like developing release 2.0 while still supporting 1.5 and 1.6. However, especially with

Re: [zfs-discuss] A versioning FS

2006-10-08 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 10:28:06PM -0400, Jonathan Edwards wrote: On Oct 8, 2006, at 21:40, Wee Yeh Tan wrote: On 10/7/06, Ben Gollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm, what about file.txt - ._file.txt.1, ._file.txt.2, etc? If you don't like the _ you could use @ or some other character. It

Re: [zfs-discuss] A versioning FS

2006-10-08 Thread Wee Yeh Tan
On 10/9/06, Jonathan Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We want to differentiate files that are created intentionally from those that are just versions. If files starts showing up on their own, a lot of my scripts will break. Still, an FV-aware shell/program/API can accept an environment

Re: [zfs-discuss] A versioning FS

2006-10-08 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 11:16:21PM -0400, Jonathan Edwards wrote: On Oct 8, 2006, at 22:46, Nicolas Williams wrote: You're arguing for treating FV as extended/named attributes :) kind of - but one of the problems with EAs is the increase/bloat in the inode/dnode structures and

Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Snapshots of an active file

2006-10-08 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 03:38:54PM -0700, Erik Trimble wrote: Joseph Mocker wrote: Which brings me back to the point of file versioning. If an implementation were based on something like when a file is open()ed with write bits set. There would be no potential for broken files like this.

Re: [zfs-discuss] A versioning FS

2006-10-08 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 07:37:47PM -0600, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: On Oct 6, 2006, at 7:33 PM, Erik Trimble wrote: This is what Nico and I are talking about: if you turn on file versioning automatically (even for just a directory, and not a whole filesystem), the number of files

Re: [zfs-discuss] A versioning FS

2006-10-08 Thread Joseph Mocker
Nicolas Williams wrote: On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 05:25:17PM -0700, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: No, any sane VC protocol must specifically forbid the checkin of the stuff I want versioning (or file copies or whatever) for. It's partial changes, probably doesn't compile, nearly certainly doesn't