I think the idea that biofuels cost more to produce than you get has been
pretty thoroughly debunked. Check the biofuels archives, check this
http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html for an article on ethanol
specifically.
BTW, Mike, could you please take the time to format your posts when you
quote others and put their words in the regular quote format? It's really
confusing trying to figure out who is saying what when you don't do that.
That's something that your mail reader should do for you automatically if you
have it set up right.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> do you know what they are selling? reformers. they are using fossil fuels.
> hydrogen isn't viable today, since there is no source of hydrogen that
> provides a positive energy balance. It require more energy to extract than=
>
> you get in the final product.
>
> that may change in the future.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (MikeF.) > writes: Steve, According to Jay Hanson bo=
> th biofuels and hydrogen are unviable because they require more energy to ex=
> tract than you get in the final product. They have a negative energy balance=
> . Using wind/solar to generate hydrogen-from-water is a negative energy bala=
> nce, but who cares ? Wind/solar are renewable and you can't put wind/sunshin=
> e energy into your fuel tank. You can always charge an artificial battery wi=
> th wind/sunshine, but you'll get no thrust. For these reasons the marketed-f=
> or-home-use hydrogen generators (using water electrolysis) look viable to me=
> . If you can't plug your 240v hydrogen generator directly into windmills/sol=
> ar you can still use wind/solar, etc. to offset electric costs by having it =
> feed directly into the grid. Please read the email below concerning hydrogen=
> and the 2nd law of thermodynamics. MikeF. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nichols,ĘCurt) Subject: RE: Jay Hanson : Mike,
> Here's a quick answer to Jay's assertions. His point about the second law o=
> f thermodynamics requiring more energy put in than can be taken out is accur=
> ate. However it applies to ALL forms of energy, not just hydrogen. Coal, oil=
> , natural gas, uranium, etc all have required more energy input than what we=
> ever get out of them. The reason that we don't really worry about second la=
> w limitations on these fuels is that we didn't put the energy in. Energy-int=
> ensive natural actions over millions of years created these fuels. The hope =
> of many is that the same kinds of natural forces can be harnessed to produce=
> a hydrogen fuel. Using solar power to split hydrogen from a longer chain of=
> hydrocarbons -- or even water -- would allow a "free" energy source to do t=
> he hard work for us and leave us with a clean-burning fuel.
> Hydrogen's potential is still untapped. The possibilities have interested a=
> number of people; the problems have the attention of many more. Will hydrog=
> en "be all that it can be"? Stay tuned. Curt Nichols Sr., Energy Program Man=
> ager, Energy Division Office of Sustainable Development,
> City of Portland (OR)
>
--
Harmon Seaver, MLIS
CyberShamanix
Work 920-203-9633
Home 920-233-5820
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
FREE COLLEGE MONEY
CLICK HERE to search
600,000 scholarships!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Pv4pGD/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
