Hi again Harmon >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Harmon > > > > > I should mention too that the guy at MREA, whose been composting > > >humanure for decades, said turning is a bad idea, it loses heat, and, > > >for humanure you want as much heat as possible. He also said let it go > > >a year, make the piles big (pallet size), and just build another pile > > >when the first if full, rather than trying to hurry it along. > > > Obviously that doesn't work for apartment dwellers. 8-) > > > > Turning doesn't lose heat, you only turn it once it's cooled anyway. > > It may or may not be necessary - read Will Brinton's study that I > > posted previously: "Sustainability of Modern Composting: > > Intensification Versus Costs & Quality": > > http://www.woodsend.org/sustain.pdf > > A lot of people turn it quite often -- thus the rotating barrel >"compost makers" you see.
I don't have any time for those. >He was saying that you'll lose the optimum >heat if you do that. In the rotating barrels perhaps, though nothing that happens in those is ideal anyway, but otherwise not necessarily. Still, I don't recommend excessive turning. Once is enough, when it cools, and that depends on your system, it may not be necessary at all. > As for time length, he was talking about the whole sequence. Start >the pile with some straw or leaves or hay on a pallet to allow air >under it, add your daily bucket of crap, cover that with straw, it >will take at least six months to fill the heap (pallets for sides, >right?), depending upon the size of your family, maybe even a year. >This is just a pile for dealing with humanure, not your main garden >compost pile, as a lot of people aren't going to want to put it on the >veggie crops. Perfectly safe, if you do it right. Entire populations have used the sanitizing effects of topsoil for this, and grown their crops on it, through many generations, without ill-effects, and still do. Hot-composting makes sure of that, and improves the effectiveness of the product. So I think your guy's being too squeaky-clean. No need for a separate system for humanure, process it along with everything else, kitchen scraps, yard wastes, garden wastes, everything. You can still build it up bit by bit as it comes, when it gets a bit of bulk it will fire up and keep going as you add new stuff. Finally, when it's full, leave it till the heat dies down, then turn it (best to turn with this kind of pile), add a bit of water if necessary, it'll heat up again, when it cools down leave it to cure for a few weeks and then you can safely use it anywhere. > > The Gromor guys seemed to be doing frequent turning and watering to > > keep the heat down, but that's not at all necessary, IMO, and > > Brinton's, and it may be counter-productive. Which is not to say it > > won't work anyway. > > > > I don't think humanure needs any more heat than any other kind of > > composting. > > http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howardAT/ATapp3.html > > An Agricultural Testament - Albert Howard - Appendix C > > The Manufacture of Humus from the Wastes of the Town and the Village > > > > Van Vuren's pioneering work in South Africa confirms this, along with > > Wylie's in England, and Gotaas's work all over the place (not online > > yet). My own work in England also confirmed it. It's just > > thermophilic composting like any other. C:N ratio, moisture content, > > aeration apply the same as with any other materials. It'll go well > > above 65 deg C and stay there awhile, finished in a few weeks, cure > > it a few more, and that's it. That's not hurrying it along, that's > > just how it works. No need to leave it for a year, it won't > > accomplish anything, and unless you store it well it will lose > > quality in that time. If the actual composting process is taking that > > long, then it's not properly thermophilic, and not ideal for > > humanure. Poore's and Moule's experiments with topsoil sanitation > > were very interesting, and indeed many millions (billions?) of people > > have done it that way for a long, long time, but I'd want proper hot > > composting first - not just for sanitation, also the results are > > better. Hot composting is quick. > > Yes, if you have a lot, but for individuals or small families it's >just not going to work that way, the pile won't be big enough. I know, >I've tried it in WI, it froze solid in the winter. I was talking about a small composting box I had on the balcony when we were in Tokyo. "I had a 14x14x12" wooden box, only 1.36 cubic feet, composting kitchen wastes, which stayed above 60 deg C (140F) for about 10 days or more, freeze or shine - weather made no difference." Heavy snows during some of that time. The box wasn't insulated, just plain pallet planks with a lid. I did say that was pushing it, we usually recommend not smaller than 8 cub ft, which will certainly work, and is fine for a small household. I've been working with composting systems for householders and kitchen wastes and so on for more than 20 years now, in quite a few different countries, I know what the constraints are. > I think his point was pretty good advice -- you aren't going to >get enough compost to really matter from your own feces, and it isn't >really worth the risk of continuing parasite, viral, or bacterial >infection to use the little bit you get on veggies, especially root >crops. There's no risk if you do it right. >It's primarily a good way to stop wasting all the water you >flush everytime you go. And it's great for the flowers. That, yes, but there's more to be had from it. > On a large scale, that's different, although with municipal sludge >you've got serious problems with heavy metals, so I sure wouldn't put >that on my land. Best use for that is gasification. Indeed - see Stauber and Rampton's "Toxic Sludge is Good for You!" http://www.prwatch.org/books/tsigfy.html Published seven years ago, but it's still going on. "News", allegedly, July 3, 2002: http://enn.com/news/wire-stories/2002/07/07032002/ap_47731.asp Concern growing over use of recycled sludge on land Quick, aren't we. In fact when Wylie was doing his work in England toxic metals weren't yet a problem, nor plastics, yet. One of the costs that industry is allowed to externalise, so the land can't get its due return, at immense cost to all, while the seas are becoming progressively poisoned. http://enn.com/news/wire-stories/2002/06/06182002/ap_47576.asp Common human bacteria linked to disease killing Caribbean coral strain -- Tuesday, June 18, 2002, WASHINGTON - Bacteria found in the intestines of humans and other animals have been identified as the cause of a disease killing elkhorn corals in the Caribbean Sea. Etc etc. That will change, eventually, or else. And Wylie's work will then show the way forward, along with Poore's work and Moulle's before him. Best Keith > > Regards > > > > Keith ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ztNCyD/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
