<x-charset ISO-8859-1>I am very sorry if I suggested to put other people off the methods you recommend. Perhaps it is allso caused by not using the right terms ( I am not from an English speaking country ). Again, very sorry and as said in another mail, I will try it again and do it exactly as you advise. Keep you informed.
Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method > Dag Pieter > > Maar... > > >Hi all, > >Maybe a stupid question, and with all respect to Aleks, but I am making BD > >now for allmost two years, using the single base methode, without titration, > >just use 150 liter methanol and 4.5 kg NaOH per 1000 liter used vegatable > >oil. Let it sit for at least a week and very slowly drain(?) what is the > >right word ? it from the top through a fine filter. I have never whashed the > >BD. > >I have driven over 140.000 km now without any problems. > >What would be the main reason to change to the fool proof method ? > >I am very willing to learn, so I hope nobody reads this as if the fool proof > >method would not be better. I just do not know why it would be better. > > But you HAVE had your problems, haven't you? If not with your > Citroen, yet. You couldn't manage to separate the glycerine and FFA > in your by-product, despite a lot of help and advice here, and that's > dead easy - as I said at the time, it indicated something else was > wrong. Then you described your process (using less lye than now - > only the basic amount for virgin oil, though you use WVO): > > >I use 3.5 grams of lye and 150 ml methanol in the process and do not > >titrate. > >The mixing takes two or three hours, just to make sure that the whole > >reaction has taken place. > >Temperature is 15ˆžC or a bit more. > >The oil I use is WVO ( soya ), which has been used for one or two days to > >bake fish in. > >After processing, I let it stand for a week or more. I don't wash the BD ( > >not that I recommend this way of working, but in my case it works OK ). > >The pH of the BD is just over 7. > > Plus that you don't separate the by-product, just leave it there and > draw biodiesel off the top, and that you measure pH with litmus > paper, not the best way. > > I commented: "Not enough lye for WVO and 25ml excess methanol (12.5% > stoich for soy) is unlikely to be enough, especially at such low > temps for only three hours." > > I suggested you do a wash test: > > > Have you ever tried washing your biodiesel? I'd be interested to know > > what happens. Will you try this? Put 150 ml of your biodiesel in a > > half-litre glass jar, add 150 ml of water (preferably distilled water > > if you have it, or just tap water if not), screw the lid on tight, > > and shake it up and down violently for 10 seconds or more. Tell us > > what happens next. > > This is what happened next - you wrote: > > > Surprised about what happened : 3 layers. The top layer must be BD > >( same color as it always is ), and than a rather thick layer of > >white flaky stuf, and a layer of troubled water. pH of the BD layer > >is still just over 7 (measured with litmus paper ). > > I wasn't surprised - well, a little surprised that it separated at > all, and I'd guess it only did that because you let it settle for so > long. "... you now have a visible measure of the extent to which the > whole reaction has taken place, or perhaps hasn't. That white layer > should be at most very thin, hardly more than a slick." > > I suggested various things you could try next to improve your > process/product, but didn't try to push you into titration and using > the right amounts of lye and methanol, heating, and washing: "Other > people using different oils and in different circumstances might not > get it to work so well, but that's not your problem, and you didn't > recommend it." > > But you didn't respond, and now it seems you are recommending it. And > questioning why anyone would prefer to use the "Foolproof" acid-base > process. The acid-base process is probably the best method available > because it gives consistently high-quality results, even with > poor-quality oils, with lower amounts of inputs and producing less > by-products. > > But from the above I can only assume that you aren't very interested > in the best quality but only in poor-quality fuel, poorly made, as > long as it doesn't seem to damage your engine. Yet. > > You didn't succeed when you tried the Foolproof method. It's not for > novices, we and others always recommend starting at the beginning and > learning the basics first, but, rather tellingly, you don't know many > of the basics, so I'm not surprised you failed. But please don't try > to put opther people off. > > Best > > Keith > > > > >Met vriendelijke groeten, > >Pieter Koole > >Netherlands. > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Scott Alexander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > >Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 11:44 PM > >Subject: [biofuel] Foolproof method > > > > > > > I wanted to try Alek's foolproof method, but the couple of sites that > > > I've found via the Internet for sulfuric acid and phosphoric acid make > > > them seem quite expensive. Presumably that means that I'm looking in > > > the wrong place. Where should I go to get these at reasonable prices? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Scott > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! 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