Hello L Maybe you're hallucinating just a little bit. :-) Never mind, chill out, sit back and enjoy the movie!
>I KNEW I read that PH 7 thing somewhere and I wasn't halucinating; >it's in Mike Pelley's method; > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html#testbatch >"...fill up with the biodiesel to be washed. After a gentle stirring >(keep it gentle, you don't want to agitate up soaps) followed by 12- >24 hours of settling, the oil and water will separate, the cleaned >oil can be decanted out the valve, leaving the denser soapy water to >be drained out the bottom (#5). > >This process might have to be repeated two or three times to remove >close to 100% of soaps. The second and third washings can be done >with water alone. After the third washing any remaining water gets >removed by re-heating the oil slowly (Figure 8), the water and other >impurities sink to bottom. The finished product should be pH 7, >checked with litmus paper or with a digital pH tester." If you search around a bit, you'll also find that Mike's presuming your wash-water was pH7 in the first place when it came out of the tap, which might not be the case, and also that it's probably a better idea to measure the pH of the final wash-water than of the biodiesel itself. Whatever, what that pH measurement is telling you is whether the WASH is finished, not whether the biodiesel was completed before you started washing it. So why not put it all in Mike's article? But I've got no business doing that, I didn't write it, he did, I can't just change it. And what he says isn't exactly wrong. It could use a bit more explanation, and the explanation is there, elsewhere in the Biofuels section, and in the obvious place too - see "Bubble-washing". >Actually it would be a whole whack better if the glyc didn't >solidify That is easily arranged. It depends on several factors, but it's much less likely to solidify if you use KOH. Please see: How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#howmuchglyc >and I do not measure anything that way, but when I get >conflicting reports from people who are in the know and have been at >this for awhile I get confused; call me dumb. You ain't dumb. Conflicting reports? Well, you'll always have those. >Bubble wash was the revolution in washing fuel (or so it seems) and >now it is better to agitate or use a pump 'cause it gets all the >element in better contact ect and shortens the wash times allowing >for more settling times, great.... but that ain't what is posted on >the site. "The site"? The Journey to Forever website is not just an adjunct to this list, there's more to it than that. The Biofuel section of it (not the most important part of it, in our view - important of course, but just a part) has close links with the list, there's a lot of synergy and they're very useful to each other, but they're nonetheless independent entities; there's quite a lot of user overlap, but most of the people who visit the Biofuels section at JtF are not list members. So you shouldn't expect the two always to be in lockstep. Your other message: >Well, isn't that special. I get all set up to do the bubble wash as it >is the most touted and lauded way of doing things and NOW along comes >agitation and pumps. Goes to show that there really isn't any "right" >way of doing it huh? Otherwise all of this would have been CLEARLY >explained before in the simple to follow site details of "how-to" huh? >One overly positive factor is that I have not yet completed the work >on the processor/wash assembly and can still do a couple of mods to >come back into line with the knowns-to-work-best. >Please forgive my being a liitle curt, as you all have put so much >time and energy into this and other projects that my complaints are >not really pertinent, it is just that to have know this BEFORE >commencing to put together a BD unit would have been very helpful. >At least those coming after will now know huh? Ever changing, ever >advancing; I just want to get it right. > >L. As far as the washing information at JtF and what's being discussed here now are concerned, you've fallen into what at first seems to be a gap between what the list does and what JtF does. But not really. If you look at my earlier post, you'll see this paragraph from a yet earlier post: >Meeting the German or Austrian standard isn't difficult, but the >Euro standard might be, especially if we think bubblewashing is a >great idea. Might have to drop bubblewashing, go for simple stirring >instead (and making the stuff properly in the first place). Might >have to use an additive as well. And, might have to drop soy too. >Something tells me the ASTM standard isn't about to adopt these Euro >oxidation limits any time soon. Here's the whole message, dated May 20. Check it out: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/34679/ You'll see that there's more to it than just whether or not bubble-washing is a Good Thing. It's not a simple matter and I'm still investigating it. When I have the information I need I'll update JtF accordingly, if necessary (though I'm always well behind with website maintenance). Meanwhile nobody has said "Don't do bubble-washing", have they? Saying another method might be better isn't the same as saying the other one's bad and won't work. Obviously it does work. Bubble-washing will cause oxidation, but whether or not that's a problem, in which cases, with which oils, how severe, how to avoid it, is not something that anyone can tell you definitively. Yet. When we can, no doubt we will. Okay, so let's try to get all these various issues unmuddled, in their proper places, and in perspective. Emulsification on washing the fuel is NOT a problem with the washing, it's a problem with the processing that reveals itself when you wash it. Or better, when you test it with the bottle-shake wash-test. Changing the washing procedures cannot have any effect on what's *causing* the emulsification, it can only mitigate some of the symptoms. There are two problems here, a major one and a minor one. The minor one is how to "rescue" the poorly converted batch. There are several ways, and very gentle washing is one of them. You end up with a usable batch of fuel that won't hurt your motor, but prolonged use of such fuel might do. The major problem is to improve the process so that it reaches completion. Well, it never reaches completion, it always hits equilibrium short of completion, but that shortfall has to be within the limits deemed acceptable in the standards specifications. Which we can accept regarding maximum allowable levels of the various glycs, even though other parameters such as Iodine Values and oxidation might in part be "politically" biased. As far as completion is concerned, making standard-spec fuel at the "backyard" level is entirely possible and is easily achieved. You haven't been seeing any conflicting reports about that. Such fuel won't emulsify when you wash it because it contains very low levels of the emulsifiers, mono- and di-glycerides, unconverted material. So it's easy to wash. You can still bubble-wash it if you like, bubble-washing does have it's advantages, as I said. There's an oxidation risk, but not if you use the fuel quickly, which I also said. If you're planning to store it for a long time that might be another matter, but there are a lot of variables here and we don't yet know what they are - the kind of oil you used, how you store it, the weather... There are also anti-oxidant additives, but we don't yet know much about them either. And so? Were you misled? I don't think so. Do you now have to change your plans? Not necessarily, it's up to you, do what suits you best. Are you better informed? Yes. Any reason to be less than gruntled? Naah, cheer up! Focus on getting those test batches up to scratch. You're doing real well, no need to lose heart now. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever >L. >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It's beyond me why everyone wants to put so much emphasis on >whether the > > glyc cocktail is solid or not, or amber or pink with polka dots. > > <snip> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! 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