Hello James >Sorry, I just had to responde to something you said about the DIY'rs >sullying the "image" of BD??!!
It arose from this statement from Graham Noyes of World Energy, which he's been asked several times to substantiate, but has avoided doing so: >The big fear of the biodiesel industry is that homebrewers >are going to destroy the market. I have seen home-brewed biodiesel >cause problems in multiple locations and it has taken significant >efforts to undo the damage. One region of the country in particular >had large quantities of homegrown off-spec fuel that was being sold >and distributed. The use of biodiesel was substantially delayed in >this area until trust for the fuel was re-established. The biodiesel >industry has gone to major efforts and expenditure to make progress >with the engine manufacturers and to establish the ASTM standard. >Frankly, I don't know what percentage of homegrown fuel is in spec >but I do read about a lot of goo being produced. Everytime off spec >fuel causes a problem, it causes a problem for everyone. I also am >aware of at least one prosecution for failure to pay road taxes on >homegrown fuel that was sold. I think it is in everyone's interest >to recognize that there are differences between homegrown and >commercial grade biodiesel. If homegrowers can hit spec and do >quality control and test to spec, then they should consider whether >they want to comply with the various legal requirements and go >commercial. Otherwise they should keep it at home. From: "grahamnoyes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 01:58:28 -0000 Subject: [biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] CALL TO ACTION- USDA CUTTING SUPPORT FORBIODIESEL PRODUCTION Obviously he can't substantiate it. A lot of things about this statement were challenged, he didn't respond to any of the questions raised. He was under pressure, he didn't expect any opposition, if he'd had anything substantial to say he'd have said it. But he just blustered a lot instead >In this last weekends class we did a little homebrew test for quality >against commerce BD and a batch from the Berkley co-op and they were about >the same. If anything, the commerce BD that gets sent for ASTM and EPA >testing is prolly from a VERY carefully processed batch, whereas most >homebrew is carefully processed with each batch out of necessity (more >lovingly ;-) ). I wouldn't say all homebrewers are that concerned with >their batches, but to be a DIY'r is in itself a passion, and thus usually >more concerned. Thankyou! That's exactly the point, and several people have said so. Several have also compared their much-maligned homebrew with commerce BD and found the same thing, either it's the same as the commerce stuff or better. But people like Noyes refuse to acknowledge such an apparently horrendous possibility. I think we should badger the guy, demand that he substantiate his claims or withdraw them. Put up or shutup. I reckon it's BS, a baseless industry myth that does the whole movement harm. People should stop spreading this sort misinformation. If it's not misinformation, fine, then let's have some details. But leaving it hanging like this is not acceptable. Best Keith >James Slayden >On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Andrew Hoppin wrote: > ><snip> > > > help? Or could they be authentically concerned that a small producer > > making > > some mistake in production will sully the image of biodiesel? Other > > possibilities? Regardless, if you can identify what the root of their > > problem is, then whether that root cause seems silly or not, and > > regardless > ><snip> > > > Cheers, > > Andrew > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > The Biofuel Business Development Project > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Biofuel-Business-Plan/ > > Dedicated to Making An Immediate Impact > > On the Long-Range Future of Humanity > > > > > Message: 12 > > > Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:23:08 +0900 > > > From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Subject: Re: more info on the NBB and the soy subsidy > > > > > > Hello Andrew > > > > > > >I'm would prefer to see a decentralized industry of small producers as > > > well, > > > >but my bias is that if we're really going to make a near-term > > > difference in > > > >our world in terms of energy security and environmental protection and > > > >public health with biodiesel, we need to support any and all > > > companies that > > > >are willing to produce and distribute biodiesel, small and large. > > > > > > > >Cheers, > > > >Andrew > > > > > > Um, at the cost of having homebrewers dispensed with by means of a > > > load of BS about us being nothing but a peril who'll bring it all to > > > naught unless we're controlled? Or at least kept firmly in our place > > > (our own backyards)? Though we can be useful... Check back and you'll > > > see that that's basically what Mr Noyes of World Energy was saying. > > > He was asked how many times? Three? Four? - to substantiate his > > > claims that substandard-spec homebrew had caused widespread problems > > > and industry had had to clean up the mess after us. He evaded the > > > question each time. He can't substantiate it because it's BS. Not the > > > only thing he evaded. If you think that will at least stop him making > > > such unsubstantiated claims, even if he can't quite bring himself to > > > withdraw them, don't hold your breath. > > > > > > Noyes, and others like him, couldn't cope with what we actually are > > > and what we do, as opposed to his patronising idea of us. Have a look > > > at how he handled the possibility of collaboration with us, > > > laughable. It's on his terms or nothing, just like the other World > > > Energy guy who wasted our time with this talk. We're more useful than > > > these people, and it's them who make it an either-or question, not us. > > > > > > We're not against industry, that would be foolish, but there's > > > industry and then there's industry. It's not a case of small vs > > > large, there's room and need for both, as you say. Some of the big > > > companies are just fine, no problem at all working with them. But > > > frankly I think the world needs the likes of World Energy like it > > > needs a hole in the head. > > {snip} Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
