Hello Bob, Hakan
Excellent points Hakan. Plenty of other places to discuss nuclear.
Whatever role nuclear has or doesn't have in the future, biofuels
will have a critical role in meeting our future energy needs. I
agree, natural tie ins are OK (e.g., wind power sited on biofuel
fields), but let's avoid the distractions that take away the purpose
of this Board.
Bob
In a message dated 7/13/2005 3:11:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I have stopped from a participating in a few lists because of this group,
which seems to be roughly the same people all the time. I am not
interesting in deconstruct any Nuclear Power Myths, if there are any. All
kind of discussions are ok, if they come naturally, but the clear pattern
by a defined group to bring up this kind of issues, smells attempt to
organized industry influence.
I guess that if you answer this guy, we will have some hundreds of email
about nuclear and we will find that suddenly it is some new members that
like this nuclear issues. Good time to do something else until this nuke
attack has blown over, because I do not think that they can hijack this
list. LOL
Hakan
I know who you mean Hakan. I also don't think they can hijack this
list. LOL again.
But let's get it straight. You say:
All kind of discussions are ok, if they come naturally, but the clear pattern
by a defined group to bring up this kind of issues, smells attempt to
organized industry influence.
The discussion is okay, the disinfo group isn't okay. But Bob says:
Plenty of other places to discuss nuclear... but let's avoid the
distractions that take away the purpose of this Board.
What won't happen is that we'll ban nuclear discussions and send them
to other lists in case we have problems with trolls if we don't ban
it. I hope we can deal with trolls without killing any discussion.
As it is, the list archive is a good resource on nuclear issues, but
it wouldn't be for long without new input.
Anyway nuclear power IS a biofuels issue. Among the main contenders
as clean green carbon-neutral world-saving energy sources are
biofuels, and nuclear energy. The nuke message is just new wine in
the same old broken bottles, PR stuff, spin, but a lot of people are
buying it.
We've just been involved in this here in Japan, again. We've promoted
biodiesel at quite a few environment expos and summer festivals and
so on, among other things, and last month we provided free biodiesel
for diesel power generators at the five-day Sun and Moon Midsummer
Festival at Kyoto University.
There was quite a lot of publicity and Midori was there for two days
running a "booth" from the open back of the Toyota TownAce with its
new Elsbett SVO system. Journey to Forever biodiesel powered the
hall, including three stages for music, as well as the fairground and
all the stalls. It went well, lots of people, especially alternative
people from all over Japan, no problems and lots of interest.
Last night two members of one of the groups that played at the
festival visited us. We're friends, they got us involved in it in the
first place, but it was only when they were playing onstage that they
realised how they felt about it. They put it very clearly: "We are
very happy that we can play our music without nuclear power."
Seems they're not alone, two of the other groups there have applied
for our next seminar, and several people who were at the festival
came to the last one, which was last Sunday.
The site at Kyoto University is itself part of Japan's alternative
society, that whole section of the university, including a big hall
and a fairground, is a student autonomous zone, they run it, not the
university authorities. It's been that way since the student protests
of the 70s, which is still at the core of the environment movement
and the protest movement here. It's complicated and interesting, but
the movement is alive and well - they have no "power" but they fight
their battles, and usually lose them, but they win some too, and even
when they lose they don't stop fighting. Probably the major issue is
nuclear energy. It would have to be, if you think about it. Japan's
the #3 domestic nuclear user, with the government committed to 42%
nuclear power generation by 2010, against a lot of opposition.
Biodiesel as an alternative to nuclear power is a strong message. For
the groups, it fills a hole in their defences: "How are you going to
play your guitar without nuclear power?" They'd love to have a good
answer to that. They mostly use diesel vans too, with a similar
problem and the same solution. Quite a lot of the people we work with
are in this position, like people running organic food delivery
trucks, they really like biodiesel.
There's an alternative economy too, including some places that use
local currencies, and a lot of bartering. We barter a lot of
biodiesel. The two friends who visited us last night are part of the
system (anti-system). When they left they took 60 litres of biodiesel
with them. They live at a small farm something like ours about 20
minutes from here. They've been living a self-sufficient homesteading
life there for nearly 20 years. Last time we visited them we came
back with a 25-egg Japanese incubator, nice bit of gear, we've
mastered the cardboard-box method but this will be a lot easier. Only
it uses nuclear energy, and we're not planning to go off-grid. We are
in the barter market for a diesel generator though, but not for
home-power.
Best wishes
Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/
Biofuel list owner
_______________________________________________
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
