Thanks for the encouragement, Mike.
Kieth,
Earlier, you mentioned how companies like Monsanto try to infiltrate
groups like ours. In addition I'm sure that there are many
emotionally driven and misguided individuals like Tim who are acting
on their own.
Yes, an endless trickle, Chinese water torture, LOL!
Sorry, I know it's not funny, I am sympathetic. "Everybody, soon or
late, sits down to a banquet of consequences," said Robert Louis
Stevenson, and I don't envy some of these people the feast that
awaits them. But it's not a workable sympathy, too much abuse, and
not only of the list. It's the garbageman people take to abusing when
the garbage happens to be them, and that's me, LOL! But if you don't
like bouncers then shape up and learn how to behave. Quite often it
works out that way too, I'm happy to say. Otherwise it's just a job,
it's not a matter of personalities, which I've said before, and it's
true, but these people will never believe that. What they want to
believe is their problem.
When I told Tim I wouldn't let him lead the list in another crazed
circular argument like he'd done before, he answered: "Oh, so is this
about list leadership?" Huh? Another guy who got abusive in this
thread told me I'm a control freak.
On the contrary, when we moved the list from Yahoo last year it was
less control I was after. Much of our thinking was in helping the
list to be a self-moderating community, which it kept trying to be
but it kept getting shot down because one or two simply had the wrong
attitude - regardless of their views, they didn't think of
communities, they thought of themselves. I posted a few messages
about this at the time. "The second Welcome message sent onlist is
from the administrators - rules, of a sort. The gist of it is that
the list is an online community, for sharing and mutual benefit, not
a shop where you can be demanding and the customer's always right.
Once you realize that it's all fairly obvious. If you come to a
mailing list via Yahoo though you might be more inclined to see it as
a shop - the wrong expectations, and another reason for leaving
there."
It worked well, it's much more a self-moderating community now.
In the past, I've mentioned (rhetorically) that we have strength in
solidarity. The fact that we can debate about the details but stay
unanimous about almost everything else
There are so many different kinds of people here, from different
backgrounds, different places, different cultures. It's great!
Solidarity in diversity.
shows extraordinary strength and fidelity for this type of forum and
I think we stand a better chance than most in defending ourselves
and this group from such kinds of sabotage.
I'm glad other list members think that too, so do I, but on the other
hand I don't want to be overconfident. The fakes at Bivings did a lot
of harm, they're not dumb.
The Margolis article below is a great example of how this list is an
extremely important conduit for getting the truth out to potentially
millions of people. Many in this group have contributed in big ways
and others are inspired to do the same.
You have earned many titles Kieth.
Yes! Though you wouldn't want to hang all of them on your wall.
One which I feel you've earned many times over is that of activist.
Through this group and your work with JTF, you have directly
effected the lives of thousands of people (myself included).
...for what it's worth.
It's worth a lot to me Mike, many thanks.
Regards
Keith
Mike
Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Further to which...
The Horror In London
When we kill them in droves, some of them will strike back.
By Eric Margolis
We are horrified that anyone would attack innocent civilians packed
in subway cars. But the extremists and fanatics who do so say they
are exacting revenge for the 500,000 Iraqi civilians who died,
(confirmed by the UN), from the ten year US-British embargo of Iraq.
For the criminal destruction in 1991 of Iraq's water and sewage
treatment plants that cause massive cholera and typhoid. Or for the
occupation of Iraq and destruction of the city of Falluja that killed
tens of thousands more civilians, and, of course, for Palestine.
http://snipurl.com/g7h1
The Logic of Suicide Terrorism
It's the occupation, not the fundamentalism
By Scott McConnell
Scott McConnell caught up with Associate Profes! sor Robert Pape of the
University of Chicago, whose book on suicide terrorism, Dying to Win,
is beginning to receive wide notice. Pape has found that the most
common American perceptions about who the terrorists are and what
motivates them are off by a wide margin. - A conversation with the
man who knows more about suicide terrorists than any other American.
http://snipurl.com/g7h2
It's Tim Brodie who's in denial about all this.
Tim can't see straight or think straight, there's something wrong
with his mind. Todd uses the term "limbaughtomized", something
similar maybe. Tim has led the list in this kind of crazed circular
argument before, dancing round and round a crashingly obvious fact,
anything rather than expose his cherished notions to the inimical
forces of truth and reality. It has no integrity at all.
Tim quotes words like "unimpeachable", or "tolerance" or "love" in
connection with terrorist acts that ! were never said here, he quotes
arguments about Chomsky that just didn't happen that way. It's in the
archives after all, but that doesn't stop Tim, he puts words into
your mouth, and the whole list's, for very dubious reasons.
For a typical example, Todd said this to Jill:
>You bitch about opposing view point and then go on to read a full
>page, chapter and verse, as to the opinions of your favorite,
>radical, right-wing,
>"so-ultra-'conservative'-as-to-have-long-since-fallen-off-the-edge-of-
>the-flat-Earth" talk show host yesterday. What's up with that?
Tim quoted that directly to me and then said: "I notice that he uses
words like 'bitch' when in the context of corresponding with a woman,
which in other circles would border on intimidation."
That doesn't make sense, "to bitch" means to complain, that's all,
but "a bitch" is a whore or worse. In his next message Tim changed it
to this: "Wha! t about Todd implying that Kim is a "bitch". So much for
"universal rules of social discourse". He wouldn't have phrased it
that way to her face (in a job situation, he'd be written up for
intimidation)."
Try convincing Tim that Todd didn't call Kim a bitch, see how far you
get. He KNOWS Todd called her a bitch. He KNOWS the bleeding-heart
liberals on this list want appeasement, he has no difficulty
contorting a discussion of real causes into an accusation of
appeasement, as he did with Todd, as I said he'd do. You won't
persuade Tim that we're not offering justifications for terrorism to
support appeasement any more than you'll convince him Todd didn't
call Kim a bitch.
Anyway, he posted a message saying I'm a liar. Before letting it
through I asked him for a modicum of proof for this assertion, to
which he responded that all journalists are liars, everyone knows
that, just switch on the TV or open a magazine for pr! oof of his
point. No mention of what he'd said I'd lied about. So I'm a liar,
Todd called Kim a bitch, and it's the terrorists' inferior cultural
value systems that make them do it, it has nothing to do with US
foreign policy or the hubris of empire. And we're all weak-minded
fools.
Enough! It's hopeless trying to conduct a sane discussion on this
basis, and on a mailing list it's a distraction and a distortion, it
contributes nothing. We all have better things to do than waste our
time on fruitless circular arguments with Tim Brodie. So much for the
"universal rules of social discourse" indeed. Which happens to be a
list rule, not often so abused. He was warned several times, to no
avail. Goodbye Tim Brodie.
Best wishes
Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/
Biofuel list owner
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