Hello Mike, Joe and all >Along the lines of testing or thinking outside the box I've been up to >5 things which may be on interest: >1. Titrating - I've taken to using titrating more as a starting point >these days - now I usually make 6 - 8 mini batches >and just look to see which gives the best yield. I am putting together >a more formal system. 8 small batches of MoX and then into >8 mini "Dr Pepper" method small bottles. >Since this I haven't had any >strange results. This is not to say I didn't have a lot of failures - >plenty of glop, >weird seperations and so on. Most were useful in that I learned what >not to do. >2. Been tinkering with Silica beads to absorb any left over water. >Work well in practice but haven't scaled it up yet. >3. (This not new) - been heating the final product - I have an odd >collection of home-built processors - one has a sealed glass lid so I >can watch what goes on. >Interesting thing seems to be that even with settled washed BD sometimes >I see a little residue at the end of the heating process which seems to >be water. Not a constant phenomenon. I would have to do more research >before I would say that the heat releases water? Could well be a fluke.
When you heat it and cool it some of any water content drops out at the bottom and some evaporates, so use vented containers for cooling. Probably it'll just reabsorb some of what it just lost from the air but maybe it doesn't matter, diesel fuel-water emulsions have good emissions results, any dissolved water in biodiesel might do the same, if it stays dissolved. >4. Will and have been tinkering with using ISA w/ Methanol. I don't >think this will prove too useful to anyone except me, as I have 55 >gallons of the stuff on hand. >Someone did email me curious about whether it improved the cold weather >behavior of the BD. He suggested a freezer test. The only real value I >see here is if there is any improvement of the final product. It does allegedly have much better cold-weather properties and quite a few people have tried it, but without any success. Maybe a mix might work, it would be interesting to know. Pure isopropanol biodiesel apparently needs an enzyme process, I just posted a patent on it in the BioButanol thread. One list member did try enzymes, but it was the wrong enzyme and they couldn't get hold of the right one. >5. As most listers know, I have been struggling off and on with using >BD to power the whole process. I have a 10 gallon stainless reactor >which I want to heat with a PetroMax stove. My current workshop it >unheated so I have been not at this recently. It's been very cold for >this part of the country. The Ballad of the Cold Shed, I know it well... Our workshop's below freezing all the time now. There's a kero space heater there but it's not the equal of the shed's really good ventilation. (Very old shed.) >I am sure some of the above has been covered. If anything proves useful >or interesting I will write it up and post it. Please do! >-Mike > >Joe Street wrote: > > >Good points there Todd; > > > >I would like to add though that it is really informative to those of us > >on the list with less experience when we read posts such as these and > >though information may be somewhat anecdotal or even if somewhat > >scientific if it is less than rigorous it may still be of use if it is > >taken as such. If we do have time we should investigate these > >questions. For instance recently I posted a question similar to this > >asking the membership for a feeling on how much water content can be > >lived with in oil at the starting point. I know I had at least one cc > >of water in my last batch of 25 liters which equals at least 40 ppm > >water content. The batch still washed very easily and passes the water > >and methanol tests. It's a hard question to give a straight answer to, too many variables and nobody does exactly the same thing. So everyone (including me) says "No water", but as you discovered it's not strictly true. It's good advice just the same, especially for novices, no need for variables you can quite easily get rid of. Once you've got all the other factors in your processing stable then it makes sense. The higher the FFA level of the oil the more water it's likely to contain, the more difficult it will be to remove the water, and the less tolerant of water the process will be, and vice versa. So at below what FFA level will the process (whichever process) tolerate how much water? I think KOH is more water-tolerant than NaOH, but I haven't done any tests. There's often some water in our oil, though it's very little, and I take no notice of it, with the same results as you - easy washing and it passes all the tests, including lab tests. But we don't use a standard process so giving a measure probably wouldn't help much even if I had one. >I have not reprocessed it but I will have NMR > >results for it in time. It would be good to know just where the limits > >are with this. Also how much glycerine will poison the wash. I'm sure > >some people have a better feel for this than others even if it may not > >be completely scientific. > >There have been a few brave souls on here who have talked about their > >failures but not many since I've been here (about a year now I guess). > >Human nature I guess but if anyone does have some experience that sheds > >light on some of these questions please share. > >Personally I am trying to find out how much I can shorten settling times > >also. I think time can be saved especially in the early washes by > >reducing settling times for one example but I only learn a little bit > >with each batch and there are a lot of things I want to investigate. > >Does it make sense for us to organize some type of 'controlled' testing > >amongst a group of us who have a stable reliable process? Why not? It sounds like a good example of the kind of collaborative effort the list is for, or one of the things it's for. Please do it onlist, if possible, shouldn't be a problem if you're strict about the subject titles you use, and you should get broader input that way. Too much else going on here with us, but I'll try to contribute what I can, if and when. Best Keith >I can only > >change one variable at a time but if I can get 10 people to do the same, > >with different variables or differing amounts of the same variable it > >will reduce the learning curve considerably. Is anyone else interested > >or willing to put effort into the idea? > > > >Joe > > > >Appal Energy wrote: > > > >Snip > > > > > > > >>ReZn0r, > >>All this is done in microscopic amounts and may not amount to any > >>discernible difference between samples that have settled twelve hours or > >>samples that have settled six. There is really only one way to determine > >>whether or not there is any "significant" difference between the two end > >>results. That would be to conduct the testing. > >> > >>On a firsthand note, as we don't use two-stage base processing, opting > >>instead for acid/base processing. As a result, we're not exactly in a > >>position to inform you definitively one way or the other. It's also > >>rather doubtful that very many people are in such a position, if only > >>for the reason that it would take some rather controlled experimentation > >>and the majority probably don't have the time or facilities to conduct > >>such testing. > >> > >>On the other hand, it shouldn't be too terribly difficult to conduct > >>some basic/crude testing at your own leisure to see if you can discern > >>any noticeable difference. > >> > >>A fair guess is that you wouldn't notice much, if any. Perhaps what > >>another question might be is "Do you really have need of expediting a > >>process?" If so, such as in an industrial/commercial environment, > >>testing might hold more validity for you than other bears of average brain. > >> > >>Todd Swearingen _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
