Jan, Since when are esterifications "often incomplete?"
And since when is a "good conversion" achieved necessarily through base catalysis? It's relatively simple to take 100% FFAs and achieve a "100% yield" of esters. Industry does it daily from soap stock. Let people satisfy their own curiosities rather than scaring them off paths that many have already taken..., and succeeded at one might add. Todd Swearingen Jan Warnqvist wrote: >Hello Jim, >the sensible thing is to spending time and money producing BD from a cheap >feedstock, not the other way around. >Acid esterifications are often incomplete, and I assume that oils and fats >with max 20% FFA are worth while bothering about, unless you are willing to >do several acid esterification steps and draining off the produced water >after each step.But in order to have a good conversion into BD, you finally >have to run the alkaline transesterification step , also for neutralization. >Good luck to you ! >Jan Warnqvist >AGERATEC AB > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >+ 46 554 201 89 >+46 70 499 38 45 >----- Original Message ----- >From: "JJJN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 3:26 AM >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions > > > > >>Thanks Jan, >>If I had developed a method to separate FFA's from base stock without >>using chemicals or water say in the range of 95% separation in WVO >>(still a work in progress but hopeful results) so that I could React the >>Low FFA's in a Base method then would it be feasible to react the High >>FFA's In a separate Acid reaction? Or what problems would I encounter >>like the water problem you noted below? Would the FFA's be worth the >>trouble? >> >>Thanks Jim >> >>Jan Warnqvist wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hello Jim, >>>when using the acid esterification, you will have methyl esters, >>> >>> >unreacted > > >>>oil, sulphate ions, oxonium ions and - water. >>>Proceeding to the base step you will create more methyl esters, potassium >>> >>> >or > > >>>sodium soaps, maybe a little unreacted oil or partially reacted oil, >>>potassium or sodium sulphates and - even more water. >>>This method works fine if the water content can be kept on a reasonable >>>level. Please note that the higher the initial FFA level, the more water >>>will be produced. >>>With best regards >>>Jan >>>Jan Warnqvist >>>AGERATEC AB >>> >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>>+ 46 554 201 89 >>>+46 70 499 38 45 >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "JJJN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>To: "BIO" <Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>>Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 3:01 AM >>>Subject: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>I have decided to try the acid/base method in small test batches as I >>>>have some High FFA (4ml) oil I would like to process. Since September I >>>>have gone to great lengths to get repeatability and accuracy in all my >>>>work with Biodiesel. I have read and re-read JtF and I know that I will >>>>no doubt read it several more times if I get stumped. I would like to >>>>start with fully understanding the process first. >>>>Before I start: >>>>Can you use KOH with the Acid Base method? It might be obvious, but I >>>>did not see it in the recipe as a substitution. >>>> >>>>When the acid gets done with Estrification properly then the mix that is >>>>left is basically an oil (triglycerides) , Methanol, and Sulfur ions ? >>>>Or did I miss something? >>>> >>>>When the Methoxil is added the Sulfur gets combined with the Sodium >>>>ions, (right?) how does this affect the reaction? >>>> >>>>Any good experienced information would be helpful, >>>> >>>>Jim >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Biofuel mailing list >>>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>> >>>> >>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>> >>> >>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>>> >>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>messages): >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Biofuel mailing list >>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>> >>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>> >>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>> >>> >messages): > > >>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuel mailing list >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> >> >messages): > > >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
