I'm interested in what your processor uses electricity for? Seems like it would worth a little bit of hassle to use heat exchangers instead of electric elements, for such a large cost savings -- somewhere around a quarter the cost or less. Of course the pumps/stirrers/etc have to be electrically driven, but I figure we're talking about the major thermal loads for drying the fuel here (unless the topic of this thread has changed....)
Z On 4/27/06, Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Electricity is more useful to me. > > J > > > Zeke Yewdall wrote: > > I wouldn't be too sure about that. > > 500 gallon water tank weighs about 4,000lbs, and can store > 200,000Btu's of heat (changing temperature from 185F to 135F. This is > about 58kWh of thermal energy. > > 4,000lbs of lead acid batteries will also store about 56kWh with an > 80% DOD. But they will cost about $8,000. Plus the fact that PV > modules are about $5/watt, whereas new solar thermal collectors are > under $1/watt..... Partly because PV is max about 18% efficient, > whereas even a half assed solar thermal collector can hit 50 or 60% > efficient. > > For specific electrical heating needs like soldering irons or such, > electrical is the only way to go, but for bulk low temp heating, solar > thermal seems better. > > Just my two cents (as a PV guy...) > > On 4/27/06, Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Maybe but I think I can keep the energy stored for longer and use it more > conveniently and for more purposes by storing it in batteries than in a hot > water tank. > > Joe > > > Zeke Yewdall wrote: > > If you are running a reactor from solar, why not use solar thermal? > That will be much less costly than PV running resistance heating, and > can easily achieve the temperatures required. > > On 4/27/06, Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Yes you are correct Hakan and I have to remember that in other places > electricity is generated in much poorer ways than it is here in Canada. > Most of our electricity comes from hydroelectric and nuclear with a small > fraction from other types of generation. However even with your 70 -85% > numbers if everyone began burning vegetable oil or glycerine in crude > burners to get energy directly the impact on the atmosphere would be quite > significant especially in areas like where I live where electricity is > generated by relatively clean techniques. (I am not saying that I like > nuclear). Local solar PV and storage systems to me seems to be the best > option and I would still use an electric heater. I have obtained a surplus > watt hour meter which I plan to install on the main power feed to my reactor > so I can measure the total input energy to my process. I want to determine > the viability of running it from a PV system. > > Joe > > > Hakan Falk wrote: > > Joe, > > Making electricity with 35% efficiency and the heat with 90+% > efficiency, make a total of 32% efficiency, compared with 70 to 85% > efficiency by heating directly with oil. This make the oil 2 - 2.5 > times more efficient. Pollution has a direct relation to the > efficiency. When they get the very efficient filter techniques at the > power generation plants, the total pollution would maybe be equal, > but we are not there yet. > > Hakan > > At 15:55 27/04/2006, you wrote: > > > Yes but the electrical energy is converted to heat with practically > 100% eff regardless of it's source of generation which is what I > meant. You are right of course, electrical generation is not > without it's environmental impact, even hydro. But what of your > emissions from burning?? > > J > > Hakan Falk wrote: > > > Joe, > > Electricity more efficient for heating? A lot of the electricity > production is using oil, with around 35% efficiency to make the > electricity. Heating with oil have 70 to 85% efficiency in burners. I > would not give anything for this manual, the author lacks knowledge > and understanding. A pity that it is a women who wrote it, because > now I am going to be accused of being a male chauvinist. It does > however not effect the fact that it is much more efficient to heat > with oil, than with electricity. > > Hakan > > At 15:16 27/04/2006, you wrote: > > > > Getting it really cold means removing heat. Whether you remove heat > or add heat it takes time and energy. Adding heat would be a more > efficient process unless you live in the arctic and can let good old > mother nature do the work for you. BTW someone recently passed me a > manual written by a woman who shall remain nameless that is for sale > about making biodiesel. It says that heating oil for dewatering is > a very inefficient process. An electrical resistance heater is as > close to 100 percent efficient as anything I can imagine. Just be > careful about heat density. Too much power confined to too small an > area will degrade the oil at the heater surface. Better to use > several low density heaters to speed things up. > > Joe > > Jason & Katie wrote: > > > > what about applejack style dewatering? get it REALLY cold so the oil > solidifies, or the water freezes, whichever comes first and screen it out? > thats how the old folks used to make apple whiskey for hard cider when my > grandma was a kid. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ryan Pope" <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org><biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:19 PM > Subject: [Biofuel] WVO-Water Separation: coalescer media > > > > > > > I'm trying to think of alternate ways to reduce/eliminate water in WVO > that are both easy (i.e. passive) and don't involve the energy use of > heating a bulk volume of oil to near water BP. > > Coalescing media comes to mind, has anybody every looked into this > further or heard of its use in biodiesel production? All I see on JtF is > variations on heating and settling. > > If you aren't familiar with coalescer media, it works because as the > oil-water mix is passed though the media, the small suspended drops of > water > tend to group together into larger and larger drops of free water that > will > then separate by gravity on the downstream side of the media. > > An example video can be seen at > <http://www.kaydonfiltration.com/tech_video.htm>http://www.kaydonfiltration.com/tech_video.htm > > Not sure on cost of the bulk media yet. > > Thanks, > > Ryan Pope > > _________________________________________________________________ > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to > get there! > <http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement>http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > <mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > <http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > <http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > <http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release Date: 4/25/2006 > > > > > > > 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