Well, if you're going to bring running your lights and house into it.... :) I was talking just about drying fuel.
and I didn't think about the vacuum pump for dewatering -- I was thinking only of the circulation pumps. Hopefully my all electric house will have both solar thermal (to replace the electric heating), and PV (for everything else) soon.............. finances permitting..... On 4/27/06, Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A fair bit of energy goes into creating the vacuum, and less into heating > as a result. Critics will no doubt point out that there are significant > losses in creating the vacuum but for me it is useful to have finished dry > useable fuel in a little over 24 hours and time is worth something too > sometimes as is floor space. For some folks in a different situation it may > be the opposite, but not for me. Everything depends on your situation. For > example I just came back from remote places in the province of B.C. where > wood is plentiful. A straw bale house may be a good choice in Ontario but > it would be ridiculous not to use local timber if living in northern B.C. > where there is no farmland and straw would have to be transported at great > expense to build a straw house. For me the ability to use electricity not > only for fuel production but for lighting, running small electrical > appliances etc is more useful than direct solar heat storage. It would be > ideal to have both actually. Maybe one day.... > > Joe > > > Zeke Yewdall wrote: > > I'm interested in what your processor uses electricity for? Seems > like it would worth a little bit of hassle to use heat exchangers > instead of electric elements, for such a large cost savings -- > somewhere around a quarter the cost or less. Of course the > pumps/stirrers/etc have to be electrically driven, but I figure we're > talking about the major thermal loads for drying the fuel here (unless > the topic of this thread has changed....) > > Z > > On 4/27/06, Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Electricity is more useful to me. > > J > > > Zeke Yewdall wrote: > > I wouldn't be too sure about that. > > 500 gallon water tank weighs about 4,000lbs, and can store > 200,000Btu's of heat (changing temperature from 185F to 135F. This is > about 58kWh of thermal energy. > > 4,000lbs of lead acid batteries will also store about 56kWh with an > 80% DOD. But they will cost about $8,000. Plus the fact that PV > modules are about $5/watt, whereas new solar thermal collectors are > under $1/watt..... Partly because PV is max about 18% efficient, > whereas even a half assed solar thermal collector can hit 50 or 60% > efficient. > > For specific electrical heating needs like soldering irons or such, > electrical is the only way to go, but for bulk low temp heating, solar > thermal seems better. > > Just my two cents (as a PV guy...) > > On 4/27/06, Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Maybe but I think I can keep the energy stored for longer and use it more > conveniently and for more purposes by storing it in batteries than in a hot > water tank. > > Joe > > > Zeke Yewdall wrote: > > If you are running a reactor from solar, why not use solar thermal? > That will be much less costly than PV running resistance heating, and > can easily achieve the temperatures required. > > On 4/27/06, Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Yes you are correct Hakan and I have to remember that in other places > electricity is generated in much poorer ways than it is here in Canada. > Most of our electricity comes from hydroelectric and nuclear with a small > fraction from other types of generation. However even with your 70 -85% > numbers if everyone began burning vegetable oil or glycerine in crude > burners to get energy directly the impact on the atmosphere would be quite > significant especially in areas like where I live where electricity is > generated by relatively clean techniques. (I am not saying that I like > nuclear). Local solar PV and storage systems to me seems to be the best > option and I would still use an electric heater. I have obtained a surplus > watt hour meter which I plan to install on the main power feed to my reactor > so I can measure the total input energy to my process. I want to determine > the viability of running it from a PV system. > > Joe > > > Hakan Falk wrote: > > Joe, > > Making electricity with 35% efficiency and the heat with 90+% > efficiency, make a total of 32% efficiency, compared with 70 to 85% > efficiency by heating directly with oil. This make the oil 2 - 2.5 > times more efficient. Pollution has a direct relation to the > efficiency. When they get the very efficient filter techniques at the > power generation plants, the total pollution would maybe be equal, > but we are not there yet. > > Hakan > > At 15:55 27/04/2006, you wrote: > > > Yes but the electrical energy is converted to heat with practically > 100% eff regardless of it's source of generation which is what I > meant. You are right of course, electrical generation is not > without it's environmental impact, even hydro. But what of your > emissions from burning?? > > J > > Hakan Falk wrote: > > > Joe, > > Electricity more efficient for heating? A lot of the electricity > production is using oil, with around 35% efficiency to make the > electricity. Heating with oil have 70 to 85% efficiency in burners. I > would not give anything for this manual, the author lacks knowledge > and understanding. A pity that it is a women who wrote it, because > now I am going to be accused of being a male chauvinist. It does > however not effect the fact that it is much more efficient to heat > with oil, than with electricity. > > Hakan > > At 15:16 27/04/2006, you wrote: > > > > Getting it really cold means removing heat. Whether you remove heat > or add heat it takes time and energy. Adding heat would be a more > efficient process unless you live in the arctic and can let good old > mother nature do the work for you. BTW someone recently passed me a > manual written by a woman who shall remain nameless that is for sale > about making biodiesel. It says that heating oil for dewatering is > a very inefficient process. An electrical resistance heater is as > close to 100 percent efficient as anything I can imagine. Just be > careful about heat density. Too much power confined to too small an > area will degrade the oil at the heater surface. Better to use > several low density heaters to speed things up. > > Joe > > Jason & Katie wrote: > > > > what about applejack style dewatering? get it REALLY cold so the oil > solidifies, or the water freezes, whichever comes first and screen it out? > thats how the old folks used to make apple whiskey for hard cider when my > grandma was a kid. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ryan Pope" <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org><biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:19 PM > Subject: [Biofuel] WVO-Water Separation: coalescer media > > > > > > > I'm trying to think of alternate ways to reduce/eliminate water in WVO > that are both easy (i.e. passive) and don't involve the energy use of > heating a bulk volume of oil to near water BP. > > Coalescing media comes to mind, has anybody every looked into this > further or heard of its use in biodiesel production? All I see on JtF is > variations on heating and settling. > > If you aren't familiar with coalescer media, it works because as the > oil-water mix is passed though the media, the small suspended drops of > water > tend to group together into larger and larger drops of free water that > will > then separate by gravity on the downstream side of the media. > > An example video can be seen at > <http://www.kaydonfiltration.com/tech_video.htm>http://www.kaydonfiltration.com/tech_video.htm > > Not sure on cost of the bulk media yet. > > Thanks, > > Ryan Pope > > _________________________________________________________________ > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to > get there! > <http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement>http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > <mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > <http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > <http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > <http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release Date: 4/25/2006 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > <mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > <http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > <http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives > (50,000 messages): > <http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > <mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > <http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > <http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > <mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > <http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > <http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
