Hi Jan, Rexis >Hello REXIS. >The castor oil is highly questionable as a raw material for >biodiesel production due to two important issues:: >1) The biodiesel from castor oil will have a too high viscosity well >outside the specs. >2) The fatty acids of castor oil are very special and polymerize >easily forming heavier compounds while releasing water.
Thankyou - I didn't know it releases water while polymerising. (It's about 87% ricinoleic acid.) Actually it's a very stable oil, it takes heat to polymerise it. Because of how it works the polymerisation works as a benefit when castor oil is used as lubricating oil. As fuel, in biodiesel form, it would seem it would only get enough heat to polymerise once it's in the combustion chamber, but it wouldn't be there long enough for that before it combusts. If it does manage to release any water at that stage, it might not be a bad thing. A lot of work is being done on water injection and fuel-water emulsions, for the resulting emissions reductions. So I'm not sure the polymerising is an obstacle. The high viscosity is an obstacle, but nonetheless a lot of castor oil biodiesel is being produced and traded and used. Rexis, there has been a lot of previous discussion about castor oil and biodiesel, please see these archives links: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg64046.html Re: [Biofuel] Castor oil http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg61669.html Re: [Biofuel] sustainable biodiesel from Casto : Big is not beautiful, s You should use the list archives please. >Unsuitable ? Yes. > >With best regards >Jan Warnqvist > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Rexis Tree >To: <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>biofuel@sustainablelists.org >Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 11:54 AM >Subject: [Biofuel] Jatropha vs Castor > >I had did some web study on Castor and Jatropha. > >Jatropha, being promoted as the perfect biodiesel crop by India, is >receiving international highlights and many investors are interested >or even start investing in planting this crop. This may spoil the >original intension of promoting Jatropha, when large forest was >cleared again to make way for Jatropha plantation rather then >planting them on the wasteland or marginal land where india planned >to do. > >Castor, the beautiful yet deadly seeds of castor, has been long used >as an non edible oil source by mankind, as well as in other >industrial application like paint, nylon, food addictive, lubricant, >etc. And castor oil is a unuqie oil that it can completely dissolve >in alcohol(not too sure what that means, no catalyst needed?). It means that in theory castor oil can be used in ethanol production to separate the distilled ethanol from the 5% or more of water it will contain, producing anhydrous ethanol that can be used for production of ethyl esters biodiesel (and anhydrous ethanol can also be blended with gasoline for fuel use, but not if there's any water in it). Again, please use the archives. >Our focus here is obviously biofuel. About which is the better >choice for biodiesel. There really is no one-size-fits-all "better choice" for biodiesel. Biofuels production only makes sense at the local level, which means that the best choice will vary very widely depending on the local circumstances. By the way, I don't think you should be thinking in terms of industrialised monocrops and plantations and irrigation and fertilisers (along with mass-murder pesticides like paraquat), wrong direction, and no need for it. It's the wrong paradigm for biofuels production, it will almost always have negative repercussions, often severe, no matter which "best crop" you use. >Similarity: > - drought resistance > - oily seeds sitable for fuel purpose > - seed cake made an excellence manure Castor oil seedcake? With jatropha seedcake it's just an excuse - all oilseed cake makes an effective "fertiliser" but it's usually considered a waste, it's a better use to feed it to livestock and use the livestock manure as fertiliser. > - poisonious and therefore producing non eatable oil > - a kind of weed > >Jatropha advantage > - it is said that Jatropha would trive on all kind of soil even rocky soil There are many trees that are just as hardy as jatropha, including oil-bearing trees that don't have some of jatropha's disadvantages. > - Higher oil yield Higher than what, than castor oil? I doubt it. > - it can improve the soil quality Allegedly, because it's a legume, and legumes fix nitrogen in their roots. Whether they actually do so or not and to what extent depends on a lot of things. Again, many other trees are legumes, including oil-bearing trees. >Jatropha disadvantage > - since it is relatively new crop therefore it was not well >understood, and inaccurate yield figure estimation may harm profit, >more research and real data required > - Jatropha is suitable for India where large area of their land >consist of arid wasteland, Are you sure it's wasteland? I think land is in short supply in India, any land. >but may not be suitable to other country like those with lots of rain forest. You miss a major disadvantage, that the oilseed cake left after extraction is toxic and cannot be fed to livestock. That is almost always downplayed by jatropha fans, but it can seriously affect the economics of using jatropha as a biodiesel feedstock. Other disadvantages are that it's difficult to extract the seed, and difficult to extract the oil from the seed. There's a message in the archives about jatropha in India from Dr. A. D. Karve, president of the Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI) in Maharashtra, India, here: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg48290.html I'll repost it here: 17 Sep 2002 > I have conducted field experiments on both castor and Jatropha. I had >already mentioned in a previous E-mail, that Jatropha was tested rather >widely in India and was given up because it was not found to be as high >yielding as the traditional oil crops in India. I do not know how it >behaves in other countries, but under our agroclimatic and edaphic >conditions, Jatropha produces much more vegetative matter than fruits. At >harvest, one has to search for the occasional fruit hidden behind all the >foliage that this plant produces. It is found all over India as a wild >plant. India has some 25 uncultivated species of trees that yield >non-edible oil. The seed of the wild trees is collected by villagers and >sold to merchants attending the weekly village markets, but no farmer would >ever think of growing them as a crop, because all of them are lower yielding >than the cultivated oil plants such as peanut, soybean, sunflower, >safflower, sesame, various mustards and rapes, coconut, etc. Among the >seasonal oilseeds, hybrid castor is the highest yielding (2.5 tonnes oil per >ha), but it is not an edible oil. The highest yield of edible oil, also >about 2.5 tonnes per ha, is obtained from coconut. Oil palm, which yields 6 >tonnes of oil per hectare in Malaysia, was tested and given up as low >yielding under Indian conditions. >Yours A.D.Karve Here's some more from Dr Karve on jatropha, in a recent discussion at the Stoves list at REPP. >I fail to understand why the Government of India is making so much >propaganda about Jatropha, which is a low yielding, wild plant. >Nobody in India has ever obtained more than 300 to 400 kg of oil per >ha from Jatropha. ... Any cultivated oilseed plant species, which >has been subjected to plant breeding input, would yield more oil >than Jatropha... Land is in short supply. If one has to use land to >grow anything, one should not grow a low yielding plant like >Jatropha. >A.D.Karve, 30 Apr 2007 In response to some of the usual claims made for Jatropha: > > It seems that Jatropha can potentially have two advantages over seed from > > other plants: > > > > 1. It can grow on land which is otherwise unsuitable for agricultural > > production, it can even be planted as a stabiliser in areas of >soil erosion, > > producing seeds with 1 year of planting. > > > > 2. Many organisations advertise very large potential yields from Jatropha > > (up to 12 tonnes per hectare), on the other hand it seems there have also > > been many disappointing projects in India with yields below 1 tonne per > > hectare the norm and many farmers giving up altogether on the plants. > >1 tonne of Jatropha seed per ha is the norm in India [ie 300 to 400 >kg of oil, about the same as soy]. If grown on poor soil, the yield >is even less. For holding soil on sloping lands, there are other >plants, which would be more profitable than Jatropha. >A.D.Karve, 4 May 2007 On India's much-publicised plans to grow Jatropha along the railway lines: > > It should probably be noted that the Indian entity most likely to benefit > > from strong support of Jatropha also happens to be one of its largest > > employers as well as most powerful organizations: namely the Indian > > railroad. Their plans to plant Jatropha along the tens of thousands of > > kilometers of tracks could be a real cash cow - especially with a > > guaranteed price floor of 25 rupees per litre. They have idle land, idle > > manpower and a lot of political sway. > >The price of Rs. 25 per kg of Jatropha oil is a fraudulently low >price. The present price of non-edible oils in India is around Rs.40 >per kg (about 1US$). The price of vegetable oils keeps rising from >year to year. The land along the railway tracks belongs to the >Government of India. The Government does not have the resources to >plant and take care of a linear plantation stretching over thousands >of kilometers. It can only be done if the land is leased to >villagers living along the railway track, but it is a potentially >dangerous thing to do, because once the land is handed over to the >people, it would be practically impossible to evict them. The >railway ministry is especially notorious for its leniency towards >squatters. Squatters are living for generations on railway platforms >and the railway does nothing about them. In a democracy, one does >not antagonise voters. >A.D.Karve > > > At present the price of non-edible oils may be far higher than the INR 25 > > set by the government. As a result, no farmer would sell at that price > > unless forced to. However by setting that price floor, the government > > creates the economic guarantee for future planning purposes for both small > > and large scale. Since investing in oil bearing plants is not a 1 season > > affair, it is helpful to be able to calculate the marginal cost. >As long as > > the marginal cost of planting a non-edible is lower than or equal to that > > INR25 a farmer can at least assured that in the worst case of a massive > > market glut, s/he would nevertheless be able to cover costs. >Naturally this > > works better on a larger scale, but from an economists viewpoint it does > > have an effect of ensuring that land usage decisions will respond to this > > price floor based on opportunity cost at a minimum price of INR >25 and above > > not speculation as to long-term movements of the anything below this floor. > > If not a price at which farmers are forced to sell, the policy really does > > appear to support their long-term decision-making. > >The present price of diesel in India is between Rs. 35 and Rs. 40 >(about US$1) per litre. The potential users of biodiesel would not >like to pay more for biodiesel. In order to assure the users of >biodiesel that they would not have to pay more than the price of >mineral diesel, the government initially set the price of Jatropha >oil at Rs. 15 per kg. When the Government realised that it would not >get a single drop of Jatropha oil at Rs.15 per kg, the price was >raised to Rs.25 per kg. I have never come across any document that >says that Rs.25 was the minimum floor price of Jatropha oil. >Everybody assumes that Jatropha oil would be available at Rs.25 per >kg. Adding the cost of processing to the basic price of Rs.25 per >kg, it may be possible to produce biodiesel at Rs.40 per litre. But >adding manufacturer's profit, the cost of transport, cost of >maintaining the supply chain, and taxes, the cost of biodiesel to >the end user would be around Rs. 100 per litre. The Government is >just playing to the gallery with its declared price of Rs.25 per kg. >It knows that the price of vegetable oil in India, whether edible or >non-edible, is never going to go down to Rs.25 level. I therefore >called it a fraudulently low price. >A.D.Karve, 8 May 2007 Jatropha has it's place as an oil crop nonetheless, and so does castor oil, despite their disadvantages, but it depends on the place, on the local circumstances. Neither is likely to be a sole solution, but one of a range of solutions. Best Keith >Castor advantage > - Castor oil is one of the oldest traded goods, mankind has been >trading castor oil since a few thousand years ago > - Castor oil has a lot of industrial usage, therefore a market is >already exsistance, thou limited > - Since it was cultivated before in commercial plantation, its >biology is well understood, and high yield hybrid is available > - Castor can be found in medium climate area as an annual crop or >in tropical area as a small tree > - faster oil yield and long term yield is possible for tropical/warm area > >Castor disadvantage > - It is said that castor will exhaust the soil quickly, fertilizer >required to maintain a large castor plantation for a reasonable >yield, but castor can often been seen as weed growing without >attension, therefore it is possible to plant it as marginal plant in >unattended idle area. > - it notorious poison is feared by the public, perhaps a research >on castor poison(ricin) remedy is necessary. > >I do not have a conclusion currently, but as you can see, I am >trying to open up Castor as an extra option here. > >Discussion: > - Cultivation requirement: Jatropha maybe able to trive on most >kind of soil, but I believe that to yield reasonable harvest, >irrigation and fertilizer still required. Castor, while the >cultivation requirement is better understood then Jatropha, it is >still unknown about which one gets better yield if left unattended >in a poor condition area, it is possible that each of them will >exceed another under specific senarior, intercropping of castor and >jatropha also an interesting subject. > > - Harvesting: it seems like it is more labourious to harvest >Jatropha, which its yield grow as scattered fruit, yes, olive >harvester can be modified to harvest Jatropha but it will involved >high capital. Castor seem to be easier to harvest as its yeild made >of a branch of fruit, worker can just cut the whole branch at once. > > - Toxicity: It seems that castor seeds are much more deadly then >Jatropha, its toxic, which was being used in assasination, implies >that it is extremely deadly and no remedy avaibale; however castor >oil is perfectly harmless due to the fact that the toxic is only >water soluble not oil soluble. Jatropha, even though toxic, in some >case, was roasted and being eaten dangerously, but note that >Jatropha toxic is deadly as well can kill a person by a 5-6 seeds, I >am unable to find more articles about its toxicity and remedy about >Jatropha here. Both plant is said can be detoxify by simply heating >it and thurs destroying the toxic protein, confirmation needed here >thou. > > - Cost: this is also a main factor, the lower input with higher >outcome is desired. > >Any other topics are welcome. > >Just my 1/2 cents, top up or add on are most welcome. > > > > >Regards >Rexis _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
