Hi guys I agree with Andreas all the way native svg in the browsers and built in support in hand-held is far more better for both users and developers. I just hope adobe realize that and do not halt their support in developing applications like they did with the viewer. Also ASV and SVG developed for ASV usually is faulty with all other browsers as it only works over IE.... WE are better off with a native svg deployment. kojo
--- Andreas Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Phi, > > I am getting tired about this discussion all the > time. > > SVG is not dependent on Adobe, nor is Adobe > dependent on SVG. Adobe just was one of > the first implementors but is currently not active. > This does not mean that Adobe does not > see any value in SVG. They just think that SVG is > better when it is supported by the > browser natively. Adobe implemented SVG in many > Adobe products: Illustrator, GoLive, > Indesign, Graphics Server, etc. just to name a few. > > Luckily, browser vendors now took over. Opera, > Mozilla and Apple are currently > developing native SVG support. Native SVG support is > better than plugins anyway, since > SVG is now first class citizen in the browser and > not locked into a plugin. Native SVG also > means full access to browser features and the DOM. > > As Jeff pointed out, there is a very high > probability that IE8 will have native SVG support. > At least Chris Wilson (chief developer of IE) stated > that SVG belongs to the interoperable > core of the future web browser. > > So why doubt and discuss about the future of SVG all > the time? (it was discussed a few > hundred times on this list already) It will happen > and currently happens in the alternative > browsers. Once everybody else will have it, > Microsoft will have it as well. Thats pretty sure. > > Andreas > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Phi Tran" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I like to share with you all some of my thoughts > based on reasoning and my > > observation and as result on some of my > experience: > > > > 1- You all know having a very good welcome and > much more potential then > > "FLASH". Adobe has more reputation then > Macromedia, they an easily push it > > thru to become wide accepted standard but they > choose other way around?. It > > tell me something that either they could not find > the talented resource > > enough to make it thru or the architect of it has > some flaws/hurdle to make > > SVG become inferior or both. To me this is > admittance on Adobe part that > > SVG will not serve their purpose and inferior to > Flash? > > > > 2- We have got into this dilemma: > > > > a- If we put everything (Script and event) inside > the SVG then 'SVG" can > > not access external elements. Then this is nothing > more then an other > > 'Flash". In this case I have not seen any player > can have it technically > > competitive yet simply it's veeeeeeery slow. I > personally have done some > > research on "Batik" and "FF" on this matter and I > don't think that architect > > can helping me to overcome this hurdle. > > > > b- If we put the SVG outside of the player and/or > using SVG-outside > > javascript making SVG as a part of the DOM. I have > give up on this when all > > time and every time IE will fails me if there is > about 5-6000 elements total > > I have not come up with the exact number yet but > 6000 is a sure shot. FF > > other hand do not fail me on about 7000 yet but it > cost me two arms and a > > leg to have an element update. (I have not > counting the loading time yet). > > > > c- As some have suggested: Take the code from > Batik or FF then make it work > > on IE? building a "Me too" ? It is not going to be > better either -I think?-. > > > > d- I do believe the VML plug-gin for none IE may > be more appealing to big > > player such as Google map then having SVG or even > MS live local ? > > > > 3- Let's be real: Just give me an percentage of > client that does not have > > access to IE. You can have 15-20% of the client > that have FF or Opera. Among > > them how many does not have access to IE ? I think > this number is veeeeery > > small. > > > > 4- Does Microsoft having any incentive to have SVG > "natively support" ?. > > give these facts/fact-toids > > > > a- They already have VML. > > > > b- It does not take much time to get the open > source then make it become an > > plug-gin activeX as of AVG. As the way MS does in > the pass with "filer > > activeX"; 99% percent of the development are > already there?. I think this > > will become one more "Flash" inferior product. Not > counting that MS are > > competing with Adobe on other areas of the Web > development? > > Another ActiveX "Me too" ? > > > > c- "Hope" come when other browsers are supporting > SVG? will it cause MS to > > support SVG?. Without any other development we are > all hung by a thread. ASV > > is an ActiveX which is OS application now it works > on XP, 2000. Does it work > > on Vista? LongHorn?. > > > > > > > > ONLY THE FUTURE WILL TELL. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Phi > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Protect your PC from spy ware with award winning anti spy technology. 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