I have just noticed that this response went only to Andy. Forwarding to to the list now.
Peter On 24 September 2013 14:26, SomeoneElse <li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk> wrote: > Hi Peter, > > Thanks for replying here. > > Peter Miller wrote: > > > So...on the basis that we should tag what is there, we see a white sign > with a black diagonal line on it then that is what we should indicate. We > do of course interpret that by putting what we believe if the correct legal > speed limit in maxspeed. As such a single carriageway national limit is > coded as "maxspeed:type=gb:national,maxspeed=60 mph". As dual carriageway > is tagged as "maxspeed:type=gb:national,maxspeed=70 mph". The motorway > version is "highway=motorway,maxspeed:type=gb:national,maxspeed=70 mph". > > > I understand the potential problem (does a national speed limit dual > carriageway slip road count as a dual carriageway or not?) but am concerned > that changing e.g. "GB:nsl_single" to "gb:national" will: > > o potentially obscure any underlying data errors (imagine something tagged > "maxspeed=70 mph, maxspeed:type=GB:nsl_single") > > o make things more difficult for data consumers (if only by changing the > data from something that they might be expecting) > > o confuse new mappers who see data that they've entered being changed > because it's "wrong", when in reality there really isn't a concensus on > this. > > I fully accept that national speed limit tagging in the UK is a mess (at > the time of writing 4 of the top 6 values for > http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/maxspeed:type#values could mean > the same thing) but any consolidation must proceed following discussion. > Sure, and I am politely inviting people to discuss the subject now and am suggesting that it makes a lot of sense to consolidate around a tag value which describes what one sees in front of one on the ground, ie a black and white sign. To be clear I in the habit of using the nsl_single and nsl_dual format until PinkDuck politely pointed out that I was tagging some slip-road etc incorrectly and we agreed that is made more sense to avoid the confusion in the first place and use the simpler gb:national. > > With regard to the other point: > > > For avoidance of doubt, all my edits have been fully manual. > > > I don't believe that anyone has suggested otherwise > I was responding to Roberts comment above that "I certainly don't think there has been any discussion of or agreement for a mass mechanical edit to change existing values." > although I have certainly suggested that you may not have visited all of > the places that you have been changing the speed limit for. There is > clearly a sliding scale between "I've surveyed an area, and everything that > I've edited is based on the results of that survey, aided by e.g. Bing, > OSSV, and other named sources" and "I've changed a bunch of tags worldwide > based on who knows what information without even looking where I've changed > them". > > The wiki's "mechanical edit > policy<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edit_Policy>" > (as currently written) suggests that changes of this type may be covered > ("search-and-replace operations using an editor... unless your changes are > backed up by knowledge or survey") - I guess that it depends on what you > mean by "knowledge" **. > > Clearly no-one's going to object to some tag-changing edits > (designation=public_fooptath to designation=public_footpath for example) > but in this case there's enough doubt - other mappers have said "I think > the changes should reverted" and "This tag is vital" in the replies to my > original mail. > > Based on that, where you've changed e.g. "GB:nsl_single" to "gb:national" > would it be possible for you to revert your changes? There's clearly a > discussion to be had going forward about which one of GB:blah, UK:blah, > gb:blah and uk:blah we need to keep, but based on the replies so far there > doesn't appear to be a concensus to support merging of everything into > "gb:national". > I don't hear a clamoring for such a reversion, and indeed I don't think anyone in OSM is sufficiently knowledgeable able the law to say for sure which tag should be used in all cases as I have indicated above. Peter Cheers, > > Andy > > ** In which case quite possibly mea culpa for the changesets that I refer > to > here<https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2013-September/015227.html>- > it's not black and white. > > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > -- Peter Miller CEO +44(0) 7774 667213 ITO World Ltd - Registered in England & Wales - Registration Number 5753174 Office - 2nd Floor, 25 Lower Brook Street, Ipswich, IP4 1AQ. Registered Office - 32 Hampstead Heath, London, NW3 1JQ. Telephone - 01473 272225 www.itoworld.com IMPORTANT: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential. They are intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you have received this email in error, please notify the system manager or the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to anyone or make copies thereof. -- Peter Miller CEO +44(0) 7774 667213 ITO World Ltd - Registered in England & Wales - Registration Number 5753174 Office - 2nd Floor, 25 Lower Brook Street, Ipswich, IP4 1AQ. Registered Office - 32 Hampstead Heath, London, NW3 1JQ. Telephone - 01473 272225 www.itoworld.com IMPORTANT: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential. They are intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you have received this email in error, please notify the system manager or the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to anyone or make copies thereof.
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