> > I don't know that I agree with "suburbs have had a very clear definition > in the United States for decades." To wit, some would say that a "suburb" > can be an incorporated city that is smaller than, but "associated with" > (and maybe even sharing a partial contiguous boundary with) a larger city, > of which it "is a suburb." (For example, Bellevue to Seattle, or El Cajon > to San Diego). These are quite precisely defined as incorporated cities > with rather exact boundaries. >
This is the only definition I've ever encountered in the US. I don't think anyone who lives in Seattle would consider Wallingford, Fremont, or Magnolia to be suburbs, much like nobody would consider the Upper East Side or SoHo to be suburbs of New York City. The all-knowing Wikipedia agrees with Minh [1], it looks like OSM uses the UK/Aus/NZ/Ireland definition of suburb. That usage does not reconcile well with the American usage which is more of a relational definition (Y is a suburb of X). It seems like the proper procedure is to avoid using the tag at all and use neighbourhood instead (if a tag is required). This contradicts the OSM wiki but seems like the only way to avoid confusion. The only reason I can think of to use 'suburb' as a tag in the context of the United States would be if a tag indicating 'central city' or something similar was introduced. Just my two cents. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suburb -- Brian On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 5:37 AM Minh Nguyen <m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us> wrote: > Vào lúc 11:02 2020-09-23, stevea đã viết: > > On Sep 23, 2020, at 10:51 AM, Brian Stromberg <brian.stromb...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> A short question of a lengthy response: What is the history behind that > definition of 'suburb'? Is it a result of the term being used that way in > UK/Europe/elsewhere? Seems like an odd usage, since "suburbs" have had a > very clear definition in the United States for decades now, and it has > nothing to do with neighborhoods. > > > > I believe it is UK-derived, as are many OSM "definitions" (usually / > often clarified in wiki for that key). > > If I'm not mistaken, the definition on the wiki seems to align more > closely with the meaning of "suburb" in Australian English, in which > it's understood to be anywhere within the city, even near the central > business district. [1] place=suburb was originally proposed by an > Australian mapper in 2006. [2] Also, around early 2008, Australia jumped > from 7.8% to 29% of global place=suburb usage, which could have helped > to reinforce that definition. [3] > > The wiki says place=suburb is "in a place=town or place=city", but that > doesn't necessarily say it has to lie within the administrative boundary > that contains the place=town/city as a label. place=town/city is mapped > as a POI, not as an area with distinct boundaries. But even so, it is > pretty far from how Americans associate suburbs with distinct > incorporated municipalities or unincorporated areas on the outskirts of > the city. > > [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/suburb#English > [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:Diff/55503 > [3] https://ohsome.org/apps/dashboard/ > > -- > m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us > > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-us mailing list > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us >
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