arnalie faye vicario:
Hello/kumusta,
What an overwhelming response!
This is my first time to email thru the global osm talk; it really takes true grit to
join the conversations, huge thanks to the people who inspired me and sparked the flame.
I will keep it short and redirect you to a (short) OSM Diary I wrote on Why WOMEN are
pushing for a safe and inclusive space in OSM:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/arnalielsewhere/diary/395064
<https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/arnalielsewhere/diary/395064>
You diary example is a great argument for the workings of OSM. We can tag everything
and data consumers can use what they need.
But why have you not tagged
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/100466621
with lit=yes ?
And all this has nothing with these mailing lists.
It also has nothing to do with welcoming diversity and inclusion.
I, and surely many other white males, have tagged thousands of ways and paths with
lit=yes.
Not only for the benefit of women. There are also men that need it for security. And
children (both boys and girls) or their parents. It could be used to assist vehicles
in handling lights and speed, etc. Or for astronomers.
And we have not discouraged any women or men from tagging where ways are lit.
I just checked with overpass and I have edited more than 32.000 ways with lit
set.
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1133
So I do feel disappointed by your diary implying that as a white male I am
unwelcoming diversity and inclusion by ignoring lit tags.
I think you should encourage women to tag more with lit=yes/no and other things you
believe are more important to women. Not that men could not also do it (like I am).
But we are volunteers and there is nothing wrong in tagging the things that are most
useful to us. For example I have very little interest in manholes or power-poles.
But I have tagged 300+ bars with smoking. Because I prefer to have my beers without
smoke. It is of course also useful to smokers looking for a bar, which is fine with
me as it just makes OSM more useful.
I am not particularly interested in volleyball, but I have made sure that all rowing
clubs in and close to Denmark are in OSM.
About 280 of them: https://agol.dk/elgaard/roklubber.html
I also think that routing apps could take advantage of lit tags by having a "prefer
lit roads" option. That it outside the scope of OSM, but as we get more ways tagget
with "lit", it get more likely to happen and more useful.
A slide from @mapmakerdavid states "it takes good relationships to navigate an
ocean.”
=Arnalie
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 10, 2020, at 8:01 PM, James <james2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The lack of discussion by non-men is an undeniable fact.
>Right, this is true. Sadly true. Something I also know from Linux Communities
and other Open Source/Open Data Communities.
Same in programming and IT fields, firefighters, mechanics, carpenters,
construction workers, taxi drivers, etc etc...
Now is it a simple lack of interest in the field? Gate keeping?
Discrimination/Sexism? Is it because of tradition that is still lingering?
We should work with other humans and see why as well as question ourselves what can
we do/change?
We should treat other fellow humans, despite sex, race or country of origin, as we
would want to be treated.
Would you like to be put down based on your employer, despite your knowledge?
Probably not, then don't do it
Would you like to be put down based on your genitalia, despite being quite
knowledgeable? No? Then don't do it.
On Thu., Dec. 10, 2020, 6:38 a.m. tilmanreinecke--- via talk,
<talk@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>> wrote:
> The lack of discussion by non-men is an undeniable fact.
Right, this is true. Sadly true. Something I also know from Linux
Communities
and other Open Source/Open Data Communities.
> The simplest explanation for this is the systematic institutional
hostility
towards women in the OSM community.
I did not hear about something like that what can be called "systematic".
Are
you sure that we have something like that in OSM? If yes, then please point
to
where that happened. I am pretty sure that this is not something
systematic. I
know women not feeling this way as you because OpenStreetMap is an open and
welcoming community.
Greetings
Sören
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic Offensive
Behavior in the OSM Community
From: Clay Smalley __
To: Celine Jacquin __
CC: osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org <mailto:osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org>,osm __
I'm noticing a pattern here in the replies to this email:
Only men have replied. This is, unfortunately, par for the course on the
OSM mailing lists. The lack of discussion by non-men is an undeniable
fact.
The simplest explanation for this is the systematic institutional
hostility
towards women in the OSM community. The replies themselves are the best
evidence of this.
These men replying have taken it upon themselves to explain to a woman
what
constitutes misogyny. News flash: you do not get to decide what offends
other people. If you are a man, misogyny will never happen to you by
definition. If you are a man, you have never been, are not, and will
never
be a victim of misogyny. This isn't your area of expertise. Listen to
the
experts.
Some men replying have even mentioned how this draft letter hurts their
feelings. These men need to slow down and consider for a moment that
their
temporarily hurt feelings are less important than the safety of women.
Men's feelings are irrelevant to issues where women are victims.
As far as I know, various OSM-affiliated groups have codes of conduct,
but
there isn't one governing these mailing lists. We need to adopt a code
of
conduct yesterday.
-Clay (they/them)
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 2:13 PM Celine Jacquin <cel...@gmail.com
<mailto:cel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hello everybody
I hope you are all well
We, several groups, chapters, organizations and individuals, have
reacted to the conversation in the osm-talk-list
(https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085692.html
<https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085692.html>)
considering that it is an incident symptomatic of the problem we
have
faced for many years in the community, which is one of the greatest
obstacles to diversity at all levels of OSM. Time to make a real
change.
That is why we have developed a beginning of statement on the
desirable
mechanisms to work solidly on the rules of coexistence and improve
diversity.
We bring it to your attention and invite anyone who feels
represented
to sign it. Translations are in preparation (any help is welcome):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit?usp=sharing
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit?usp=sharing>
On behalf of the signatories
Best regards
Céline Jacquin
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Niels Elgaard Larsen
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