[TruthTalk] Baptism: are we all wet? THE ETHIOPIAN EUNUCH

[Judy Taylor]

From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Laura wrote: So Elsman bases his views on Holy Hubert?   Hmm  It's dangerous to base your beliefs on a "man"  right? Or am I wrong?    Terry wrote: Very dangerous Laura, but I got a hunch  you already knew that.   DavidM writes: Yes, you both are right, but if you had ever met Hubert, you would understand it much better.  Hubert was one of those few men who I consider a true apostle of Jesus Christ.  He had all the Biblical indications of one, including the special signs and wonders.  Hubert also had a fantastic mind and memory that allowed the Holy Spirit to pepper his messages with many ideas.  He could preach and teach to a group of 200 people, and if you surveyed the group, you would get the idea that there were about seven different messages given that night. It was the anointing upon him such that it was not even what he said but the work of the Holy Spirit.    jt: I would have a problem with the above statement.  Hubert may have been blessed by God because of his faithfulness at whatever place he was at in his pilgrimage but God's anointing rests upon His Word and there is a difference. In the book of Acts it is the Word that increased and the Word that was not bound.  At some point though men began taking over and the young Church was in error by the 2nd century.   I remember Hubert telling about a woman who was saved.  He asked her what it was about his message that saved her.  She said nothing.  The whole time he was preaching, she kept seeing a towel.  She had stolen a towel from the motel, and the more he preached, the more she kept seeing that towel.  Hubert was well aware that it was not him or what he said that saved people.   jt: Sounds as though she was convicted of sin but then Hubert preached hell-fire and damnation didn't he?  Only the Lord knows whether or not this woman continued on to overcome. Receiving Jesus gives us "power to become" the children of God. (John 1:12)   Hubert's teaching about baptism was quite fascinating to listen to.  Remember that Hubert had the entire New Testament memorized and about two-thirds of the Old Testament.  Hubert could quote every verse in the Bible about baptism.    jt: All well and good but if there is no understanding all the knowledge can be a burden. Jack VanImpe has memorized the Bible also and he he way off the rails right now. His focus is on eschatology and he has joined with the Pope and Rome.   He preached and taught without a Bible in hand, and while you were fumbling with trying to look up the references and read the verse for yourself, he had already quoted it from memory and was on to his next point.    jt: Dangerous and insensitive to his hearers. A responsible preacher/teacher should encourage the people he is speaking to to be Berean as did Paul (Acts 17:11). We should be able to see truth for ourselves in God's Word and this is when it becomes ours. Otherwise we will find ourselves following after the arm of flesh.    Furthermore, Hubert was a student of history, and he could lead you through all the historical accounts of baptism from memory.  Hubert taught that baptism was one of the most divisive elements in Christianity.  As he contrasted the various ways in which baptism has been used and the various ways it has been taught and practiced, it was very easy to become convinced that Hubert knew more about baptism than any man alive.  He would certainly raise issues that you never knew.  For example, I never knew until meeting Hubert that the early church baptized people naked.    jt: History is constantly being revised, I wouldn't trust it so far as eternal truth is concerned. Hubert may have been convincing and he may have snowed some people on this issue. I don't believe the early church baptized people naked. This would go against everything God's people stood for, especially His holiness. The Gadarene demoniac put his clothes back on once he was in his right mind.   Hubert had studied for fifteen years under a Rabbi, achieving a doctorate status in that, so he had the Jewish perspective as well.   jt: There's the problem. Why study under an unregenerate religious person?  If the Jews had it together they would not have been cut off.  They rejected the Truth.  He came to them first. They are deceived and deceiving others while still clinging to a system that God has declared obsolete.  I like history also but I don't discern truth by it.   Elsman had the rare privilege of being associated very personally with Hubert for about 8 years I think.  Hubert worked with Elsman in a Detroit area church setting (though Elsman might brag about how he bought Hubert a church, bringing a blemish upon Hubert's testimony when he does so).  Elsman also provided for a radio ministry for Hubert through a radio station that he owns.  So there are a lot of reasons why Elsman might be inclined to accept Hubert's theology in the same way that some people have been enamored with John Calvin's intellect and blindly follow some of his erroneous theology.   jt: Thanks for taking the time to supply some background DavidM, this at least helps me to understand a little more of what Elsman is about.   Grace and Peace, Judyt