Ok there is a lot of data here. I was trying to show that the great Deciever has had his hand in the insertion of Morning star. He claims this as his title, to pass himself off as the white horse rider. I showed every different angle & occult group which believe this junk.
Anyway the use of Morning star in Is 14 is an out &out ERROR. That is demonstratable. Helel is "shining one" not Star! Close no cigar. The additional info is to show a Satanic influence on any bible that inserts Morning or day star in the verse!
As far as the other stuff there are lots of questions and lots of replies will be required. let's take it slow. Can't answwer it all in one post unless I post a whole books worth.
Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
cd: This is real good information brother and I am saving it for future use-but we somehow are miscommunication. I am not saying that Jesus isn't the Morning Star. You are giving me a lot of Info that points out whom Lucifer is-but I am of the opinion that these sources you gave have been tainted by a misunderstanding of Isaiah 14:12 long ago-and others have also incorporated this mistake into their religions-and if they want to rename Satan then the sin is no different -still sin to worship him or invoke him by any name. I find no evidence in that passage of Isaiah 14:12 that it is speaking about Satan -I do find evidence that the passage is talking about a Babylonian king who had a name that was compared to the morning star-who fell (ie. possible writting on wall? If men were stars then he was considered greatest among men so he would be the brightest star-the Morning star). In the information below that you gave-Strongs itself said that the word "heylel #1966" (notice the small letter s-a name begins with a large letter-more personal) can also mean "morning star. Brother Kevin I am not attacking the KJV-I have one and have preached out of it for many years and still do so -at times. I do not believe the KJV to be wrong. What I do believe is that the NASV is a version written and given by God in our language so that some meaning are clearer. If I took the KJV and interpreted it into the Cherokee Indian language you wouldn't have no problem with that so why is there a problem with the NASV? I have also studied other versions and have found all of then lacking as you have-but I believe the NASV is a gift from God that helps us understand Pauls writings more clearly. The truth brother is that we understand more about ancient Geek then we did when the Vulgate MSS was used. The only way that you can claim the KJ to be the only word of God is to take each difference from the KJV and the NASB and compare then to the ancient wordings (ie. MSS) as you did with Strong's on Isaiah-b ut I can save you some time because I have done so for two yrs now. How many people have came up to us while on the street and said that they couldn't understand the KJV? I have the belief that God wants his word understood-so why would he give us a version that uses a language hundreds of years old? What did the people use before KJ-and why aren't we using the Genevia Bible now ?Please slow down brother and answer these questions-I know you would charge hell with a bucket of water and I would do so with you-but for the sake of truth slow down and try to listen to what I am saying. Thank bro.----- Original Message -----From: Kevin DeeganSent: 10/30/2005 11:38:19 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry & Dave: inquiring minds want to knowIn Greek Helios is the sun god. In German, this became hellen, from which came the word helder, meaning, "clear" or "shiny." But there is also a sense of "blinding," that is, blinded by the light, in this; and thus helel entered English as "hell," a covered place, a place of darkness as if blinded, a place "far off from God." So, the source of our word hell is the helel referred to in Hebrew. The latin Lucifer matches HELel in meaning and in character! helel, can be translated "shining one"!
Lucifer is also a (Any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force) deity in the Voodoo religions
The word Lucifer is from latin lucis (lightgenitive of lux) and ferre meaning "to bear or bring" Thus Lucifer the Light Bearer! The Angel of Light.
The Hebrew word translated as "Lucifer" in Isaiah 14:12 in the KJV is heylel (hay-lale', Strong's #1966), and literally means "shining one", "morning star", "light bearer", etc. Isaiah 14:12 is the only place in scripture where this Hebrew word appears. Very similar to the Mormon Temple CHANT "PAY LAY ALE". http://www.singlesaints.com/lds-single-forum/4831 The hebrew 'pale' means 'marvelous', and the word 'ale' means 'true god or false god.' Lucifer is the god of this world (statement in Temple Ceremony - LUCIFER: I am the god of this world.) and the only god with whom the LDS have to do. It is important to note that when the CHANT is performed it is LUCIFER not God that answers the LDS worshipful who stand making secret (occult) signs and gestures, while wearing the fig leaf aprons! Remember also the LDS make the SURE SIGN of the NAIL! The Rock group NIN make sure you get the point of the Nine Inch Nails! Lyrics to RINGFINGER: "you just left me nailed here. hanging like Jesus on the cross." Anton LaVey, author of THE SATANIC BIBLE and head of the Church of Satan prophesied that someday soon Satan would raise up churches with the sign of Satan on their spires instead of the sign of the Cross. http://2thinkforums.org/anyboard/archive/13804.html Have you ever noticed the tops of the Temples and wards of the LDS church? are those spires the sure sign of a NAIL? http://www.lds.org/temples/main/0,11204,1912-1-40-2,00.html
The KJV rightly identifies this Fallen angel.
Who is this counterfiet morning star?
The Occult Theosophical Glossary says "The Christian savior is made to say of himself in Revelation XVI:22, [sic] I am the bright morning star or Lucifer." ( Is this a fulfillment of "I will be like the most high"?)
In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star
The Pulpit Commentary: Isaiah by H.D.M. Spence "The title daystar is truly Christ's but will be confiscated by the antichrist of whom Babylon is a type and mystical Babylon is a forerunner. And Satan will assume it, who is the spirit that energizes the heathen world power Babylon, that now energizes the apostate church and shall at last energize the secular antichrist...and his champion the false prophet."
Satan wishes to use and appropriate the names of Christ to himself, Satan is the great counterfeit.
REDEFINE: Lucifer is not satan according to who?
The New age 'Metaphysical Bible Dictionary': day-star (Lucifer)...The passage in Isaiah regarding the day-star or Lucifer...is supposed to be Satan...this is a mistake; the text has no such inference...[I]n II Peter 1:19 day-star is symbolic of the Christ lights springing up in individual consciousness.
The Dictionary of Angels: Lucifer ('light giver') erroneously equated with the fallen angel [Satan] due to a misreading of Isaiah 14:12...The name Lucifer was applied by St. Jerome and other Church Fathers. Milton ...Vondel...Blake...and Meredith [helped create his wrong identity]. Actually Lucifer...is the brightest angel, even the Child of Light.
The Mason Albert Pike "Yes, Lucifer is God...The doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophic religion is the belief in Lucifer...you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees: The Masonic religion should be...maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine."
Theosophy's Blavatsky "Lucifer represents...Life...Thought...Progress... Civilization...Liberty...Independence...Lucifer is the Logos...the Serpent, the Savior."
The GNOSTIC WITCH BIBLE shows Lucifer the Deciever in action!
http://www.light-bringer.com/Gnosis/Gnoses/lucifer_and_venus.html
The Babylonians believed that the planet Venus, when it appeared as a star in the morning, literally was Helel, the son of Shahar, and grandson of El. They worshipped Helel the morning star and considered him one of the more important gods.
SATANISTS see it
Lucifer Hebrew helel; Septuagint heosphoros, Vulgate lucifer, light-bearer HEOSphorus -Ph
osphoros (again meaning Light Bearer) Greek god of the morning star. Son of Eos (dawn) . He was depicted as a naked youth running ahead of his mother, bearing a torch. Phosphoros has a strong link to goddess worship as in Artimas/Diana (phosphorescent things shine in the dark.)
http://heosphoros.deviantart.com
(DEVIANT Skin Art)
The marks of Satan are all over this thing!
Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:cd: Isn't Venus also called the morning star? And didn't The Babylon Prince Belshazzar (I think that was his name) fall who was named after the star? Thanks bro.----- Original Message -----From: Kevin DeeganSent: 10/30/2005 9:08:06 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry & Dave: inquiring minds want to knowv12 How have you fallen from heaven O star of the morning, son of the dawn! v.22Can not be the Morning star!Star is not in the hebrew & Jesus Christ is the "morning star" He is NOT FALLEN!
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
"O Lucifer, son of the morning" in Isaiah 14:12 in the Hebrew is "HELEL, ben shachar." "kokhav" or star is not found ANYWHERE in the verse. The Hebrew "kokhve voqer" or morning stars does not appear in the text. Why then is it changed?
NEW Bibles: How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!MORNING STAR????? cast down?
HELEL ben shachar
literally translates into"Helel, son of the morning."Who fell from heaven? SATAN!
NASB How you have fallen from heaven O star of the morning, son of the dawn...you will be thrust down to Sheol.
The morning star is thrust down? I don't think so!
Jesus Christ is the "morning star" in Revelation 22:16, 2:28 and II Peter 1:19.
OCCULTISTS & Lucifer
The Secret Teachings of All Ages by Manly P. Hall "The pentagram is used extensively in black magic...it signifies the fall of the Morning Star." Which version is he reading?
Blavatsky's Theosophical Society also equates the morning star and Lucifer.
The United Nations, NGO Lucis Trust (which used to be called Lucifer now Lucis) "Lucifer as here used means...the morning star and has no connection whatsoever with Satan..."
In the new bibles Jesus Christ is equated with this fallen creature, which we know is Satan. Is 14 "morning star"
The new bibles state it is the "morning star" that fell. Satan never quits trying to be like the Most High (Is 14:14 KJV)
Watch the Bible correctors stand on their heads, put the left foot in & the left foot out, to try and salvalge their beloved perverted text.
The new BLASPHEMOUS Bibles equate Satan with Jesus! I wonder who has been tampering with them? The father of Lies!MORE BLASPHEMY
New bibles: Psalm 118:22 The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone
New bibles: Jesus becomes the "capstone" in Matthew 21:42, Mark 12:10, Luke 20:17, Acts 4:11, 1 Peter 2:7
Jesus Christ is the Cornerstone. The "new" bibles change Cornerstone to CAPSTONE. The capstone is the top of the pyramid - not the cornerstone in which the foundation is layed. To New Agers, the capstone or Mercaba, is the top of the pyramid, the source where they channel Nimrod, the all seeing eye - into their third eye. (see your dollar) The capstone is the symbol of Nimrod in many cults and in FreeMasonry (their god)... a false god, satan.
Are you praying to a new god?
Deuteronomy 32:17,19
They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods...And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters...Judges 5:8 They chose new gods; then was war in the gates.
Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils
The King James Bible has shown itself to be the superior work of godly men, giving us the proper translation. Just seeing how the false versions highly esteem Satan, would shake me enough to cause me to refuse their perversions, and cast them aside.
BUT not if you have a new version:
Luke 4:8
Get thee behind me, Satan - OMITTED in the New versionsSome trust a "capstone" I'll place my trust on the sure foundation & cornerstone Jesus Christ!
KJV Holy Bible: "be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house."
Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:cd: Good material Kevin-Isaiah 14:4 that you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon, and say...v12 How have you fallen from heaven O star of the morning, son of the dawn! v.22 "I will rise up against them," declares the Lord of host, and will cut off from Babylon name and survivors (NASV)----- Original Message -----From: Kevin DeeganSent: 10/30/2005 7:14:57 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry & Dave: inquiring minds want to knowancient Greek the word was "Day Star"
LDS god lives near Kolob
JW god lives on Alcyone
Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the FATHER of both (Jehovahs Witness & Mormon ) Religions ( and all others ) had something to do with a star.
2 Corinthians 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."
In his early days, Brooke F. Westcott, (one of those who brought us the new versions) took on the study of Mormonism and he studied the book of Mormon. And remember in Mormon belief, Jesus and Satan were brothers. Both presented their salvation plans to God the Father and God chose the one presented by Jesus. The influence of Hort and Westcott is still very heavy upon modern theologians and bible translators. So it would follow that if Westcott believed Mormonism, then some of that belief would have trickled down through the false seminaries and into the belief systems of translators. "He took a strange interest in Mormonism . . procuring and studying the Book of Mormon." Westcott, Vol. 1, p. 19.
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
IS 14:12-13 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground...For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the
stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Occult Parallels:
The Babylonians believed that the planet Venus, when it appeared as a star in the morning, literally was Helel, the son of Shahar, and grandson of El. They worshipped Helel (compare to the hebrew ) the morning star and considered him one of the more important gods.
Isaiah 14:12, the Hebrew says "helel ben shachar"
http://demons.monstrous.com/demonclass_3.htm
Lucifer Hebrew helel; Septuagint heosphoros, Vulgate lucifer, light-bearer
Names : The Latin name of Phosphorus, Venus as the morning star, the light bringer which heralds the dawn. Lucifer as a personification is called a son of Astraeus and Aurora or Eos, of Cephalus and Aurora, or of Atlas. He is called the father of Ceyx, Daedalion, and of the Hesperides.
"For the Maya the importance of Venus, above all planets, cannot be overstated. It was called noh ek (great star), chac ek (red star), sastal ek (bright star), and xux ek (wasp star). We recall some of the statements the early chroniclers made about the Indians' propensity for watching it. Mexican friar Motolinia tells us that 'next to the sun they adored and made more sacrifices to this star than to any other celestial and terrestrial creature' (Nuttall, 1904, p........ 498) and 'they knew on what day it would appear again in the east after it had lost itself or disappeared in the west . . . ; they counted the days by this star and yielded reverence and offered sacrifices to it.' " (Anthony F. Aveni, Skywatchers of Ancient Mexico. Univ. of Texas Press, Austin p. 184)
In Mesopotamia the cuneiform sign for god was a star
The god of Bahá'í : Thou beholdest, O my God, the Day-Star... http://www.bahaiprayers.org/prison4.htm
Bahá'ís believe in one God who communicates with his creatures by means of messengers
SUMERIAN HELIACAL STAR RISINGS: Son of god #1 is Star ALAGAR (first sprouts of Spring) Aries (ß-Arietis) is the heliacal rising star at the Spring Equinox in 3800 B.C. http://www.lexiline.com/lexiline/lexi32.htm
In GREEK MYTHOLOGY, EOSPHOROS was the STAR-GOD of astron planetos (wandering star) Aphrodision, the Planet Venus. Also GOD OF THE MORNING STAR. He was known as Eosphoros (the Dawn Bringer) , being the last star to shining in the dawn sky, and as Hesperos (of the Evening) as the first to appear in the evening. The Translation of Eosphoros is LIGHT BEARER or BRINGER! "Sons of Apollo ... Philammon by Leuconoe, daughter of Luciferus [Eosphoros]." - Hyginus, Fabulae 161 "Brilliant in the dawn Lucifer (Morning-Star) had mounted high, the star that wakes the world to work." - Ovid, Metamorphoses 4.665
Mary worshiped by RCC is also known as "Morning Star", STAR OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM and 'Star of the Sea' who guides us safely into heaven's port
http://www.scborromeo.org/saints/bvm.htm
"HAIL MARY Star of the Morning"http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Hymns_and_Carols/hail_mary_star_of_morning.htm
The symbol of islam is the The crescent, star. The roots of islam can be traced back to: "The first pre-Islamic inscription discovered in Dhofar Province, Oman, this bronze plaque, deciphered by Dr. Albert Jamme, dates from about the second century A.D. and gives the name of the Hadramaut moon good Sin and the name Sumhuram, a long-lost city....The moon was the chief deity of all the early South Arabian kingdomsparticularly fitting in that region where the soft light of the moon brought the rest and cool winds of night as a relief from the blinding sun and scorching heat of day. In contrast to most of the old religions with which we are familiar, the moon god is male, while the sun god is his consort, a female. The third god of importance is their child, the male morning star, which we know as the planet Venus...The spice route riches brought them a standard of luxurious living inconceivable to the poverty-st ricken South Arabian Bedouins of today. Like nearly all Semitic peoples they worshipped the moon, the sun, and the morning star. The chief god, the moon, was a male deity symbolized by the bull, and we found many carved bulls heads, with drains for the blood of sacrificed animals." Qataban and Sheba, Wendell Phillips, 1955, p. 227
MT 24:29 stars shall fall from heaven
Oxford English Dictionary "The morning star; the planet Venus when she appears before sunrise . . . ."
"Thou that thoughtest thy selfe most glorious, and as it were placed in the heaven: for the morning starre that goeth before the sunne is called Lucifer, to whom Nebuchad-nezzar is compared." (Geneva Bible, 1599 ed. [1560 ed. differs only in spelling]).
Amos 5:26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the
star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.
Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
NAH! Could not be anything to it.
Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:----- Original Message -----From: DaveSent: 10/30/2005 12:32:04 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry & Dave: inquiring minds want to knowcd: By the way I am not anti-Mormon-
DAVEH: I respectfully disagree with you, Dean. As we (LDS folks) define it, you seem to qualify.cd: Lets put it this way-I am no more against Mormons then I am against Catholics,Moslems,Sodomites...etc I am against anything that promotes another truth when there is only one truth.But I am for the person and against the spirit behind the lie -if this wasn't so I wouldn't be trying to help you escape hell in Jesus Christ.
And....yes, you are correct. Sometimes I have had meaningful discussions with you, even though I'm sure you find me still ignorant in matters of truth. I appreciate you continuing to chat with me despite my presumed ignorance.cd: Ignorance in our language isn't a bad word or a put down-it means that one simple doesn't know certain topics or facts. I am ignorant about many areas of Mormon religion such as what is Pay-lay ale? Yet I understand that to be the brother of Christ-Satan isn't viewed in your religion to be such a bad guy.So to you doing a chant invoking his name isn't the worst one can do. But for the matter of our discussion Lucifer is not another name of Satan-this is a mistake in the meaning of the translation.In the ancient Greek the word was "Day Star" and refereed to the Babylon Prince Belshazzar ( I think that was his name) and was comparing men to stars and Belshazzar was the most powerful man as Venus was the brightest morning star hence to name Lucifer-which by the way the only time this name is used in the bible (Isaiah 14:12) .In a deeper search The word actually means "Howl"The NASB is mo re correct here then the KJV.
Dean Moore wrote:cd: By the way I am not anti-Mormon- I am pro Bible. There is a difference.I have not singled out Mormons to attack-they just happen to get in the way of my offered truth. I have actually had some good discussions with a lot of Mormons and found then to be well educated-but still ignorant in matters of truth.----- Original Message -----
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