Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
DAVEH: Doesn't matter what you've found, Kevin.....either about when the LDS Church was founded, or how many folks were practicing theology in the form of baptists as you (or they) perceive them. I quoted you material that purports to be the roots of the Southern Baptist Church as being founded in Protestantism. If you want to claim they are wrong....go ahead and make the claim. I'm merely trying to show that my understanding that modern day Baptists are rooted in Protestantism is not wrong.
Now, if you know of a recognized group of Baptists that are not rooted in Protestantism, I'd sure like to know who they are. I do not know much about Baptists, and would like to know IF there are any such recognized non-Protestant Baptist Churches in existence. Do you know of any???
Kevin Deegan wrote:Suppose I found a quote about the "Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints" dated 1730? Since there was no LDS Church in 1730 that would be quite a find, to say the least! Here we have a quote from 1524 identifying the Baptists, to attribute the founding of the Baptists to a later date is ludicrous! If Baptists were founded in 1600, then Martin Luther was a Mormon!
200Cardinal Hosius (Catholic, 1524), President of the Council of Trent:
"Were it not that the baptists have been grievously tormented and cut off with the knife during the past twelve hundred years, they would swarm in greater number than all the Reformers." (Hosius, Letters, Apud Opera, pp. 112, 113.)
Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:DAVEH: Seems to me that the Southern Baptists may be able to trace their roots to the Rev Wm Screven........
The Church was founded in 1682 and originally organized in Kittery, Maine by the Rev. William Screven.
......according to.......
http://www.cr.nps.gov/nr/travel/charleston/bap.htm
........assuming the above website is correct.
Kevin Deegan wrote:How can they possibly claim Apostolic succession, when they did not exist?As far as the Baptists:
200Cardinal Hosius (Catholic, 1524), President of the Council of Trent:
"Were it not that the baptists have been grievously tormented and cut off with the knife during the past twelve hundred years, they would swarm in greater number than all the Reformers." (Hosius, Letters, Apud Opera, pp. 112, 113.)
The "twelve hundred years" were years PRECEDING the Reformation and the Protestants!
Sir Isaac Newton: "The Baptists are the only body of known Christians that have never symbolized with Rome."
Mosheim (Lutheran historian): "Before the rise of Luther and Calvin, there lay secreted in almost all the countries of Europe persons who adhered tenaciously to the principles of modern Dutch Baptists."
Edinburg Cyclopedia (Presbyterian): "It must have already occurred to our readers that the Baptists are the same sect of Christians that were formerly described as Ana-Baptists. Indeed this seems to have been their leading principle from the time of Tertullian to the present time."
Tertullian was born just fifty years after the death of the Apostle John!
Don't most churches have a founder? Ask any number of churches who founded them.
Ask a Methodist, John Wesley
Ask a Mormon Joe Smith
Ask a Catholic Peter the "pope"
Ask a Lutheran Martin Luther
Ask a baptist I doubt he will answer Roger Williams! LOL
Who founded the baptist church?
Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:What if I gave you a list of Successive heads of the Baptist church going all the way back to John the Baptist?
DAVEH: Can that be done?
You and I both agree regarding the RCC claim. But, at least they lay some claim to a historical right to the priesthood authority. Do you know of another religion that makes a similar claim?
Kevin Deegan wrote:I don't accept fairy tales.What if I gave you a list of Succesive heads of the Baptist church going all the way back to John the Baptist? We would need to have a history of that Church to go along with the names.As far as Peter how did he become a Pope? There is absolutely no history that the RCC can point to.
Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:DAVEH: Did not the early apostles (mentioned in the Bible) possess the authority of God? Do you know of any who you are certain had the authority as was given by the Lord who lived after they (the Biblical apostles) died?
The RCC folks claim the authority as given to Peter was then handed down to the popes through the centuries, and can presumably name them all. I assume you do not accept that lineage of authority though. I am curious why you would not accept it though?
Kevin Deegan wrote:I am interested to see how DH's General Apostacy theory holds water after seeing these facts.Where was the break in authority DH?Who was the last group to Hold it?Kevin wrote:
>> Besides there was NO Catholic Church in 30AD.
>> The RCC came along generations later.
CD wrote:
> Correct Kevin somewhere around 400 ad.
Actually, the Roman Catholic Church came into existence in 1054, when it
split away from the churches of the East. About 500 years later it
splintered into the various Protestant groups.
Peace be with you.-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
