it is also not our place to point out people's sins.
Whatever happened to when you see a brother overtaken in...?
Amazing ignorance of the Bible ignorance of holiness
But then it does say some are willfuly ignorant
I hope that a seed may have been planted and will take root eventually and bear fruit.
This tapioca pussyfooting will never reawaken conciousness of sin
But I am not naiive enough to think that I will see or be involved in that entire process.
O No you have done your part you are a sin enabler. You want to be so inclusive while God says to be exclusive put them apart. You have touched the dead thing so much now you have the leaven on you and can not see it.
But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among
yourselves that wicked person.
Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----From: Joanna WilliamsSent: March 14, 2006 01:02Subject: RE: Fw: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teensWhile I agree completely with what you are saying...it is also not our place to point out people's sins. May they see righteousness in our lives and be drawn to a life lived that speaks volumes..much more that words ever could. Francis of Assissi said well: Preach the gospel and use words when necessary. The earlier e-mail I sent was about a couple of encounters...which ended up in some substantial conversations. I hope that a seed may have been planted and will take root eventually and bear fruit. But I am not naiive enough to think that I will see or be involved in that entire process. I must do my part and then move on in faith, praying and trusting that God will do that miraculous work of transformation in people's lives that He always does. I ran a youth group here in Mississauga years ago where I had a friend of one of our young people from the church show up stoned out of her mind. I knew that everyone was watching how I would handle that as a youth leader. It wasn't easy but I wanted her to stay and did not chide her for being out of it...or not listening...or interrupting my lesson etc.. I continued to invite her out and she continued to come..sometimes in a mind-altered state. I eventually found out that she was dating a drug-dealer and as we talked I discovered that her mother had just become a Christian. She also confessed once in our group that her mother was her greatest role model and she admired her! I knew that God was working in the life of this young woman. One day when I went over to her place to invite her out for coffee, she couldn't wait to ask me a ton of questions about the Bible, Jesus, faith etc...We talked for hours that night. It was just another "coffee"..and yet it wasn't. People change when God wants them to. She was utterly hungry for truth and probed more and more. We finally went home and a few days later she not only broke up with her drug-dealer boyfriend, witnessed to him, started going to church, gave her life to God, got baptized, attended Redeemer University and is now a Christian counsellor. Her cousins have become Christian through her witness and still contact me once in a while to get together. Last summer, I had the privilege of attending her wedding to a wonderful Christian guy. I could go on and on about many young people like her. I have learned that often when I am least expecting it people will change. All of our words and judgements and pointing of sin in their lives is not what draws them. God's love and us living out that love in our lives draws them..and they will come to Him in their own time and way. There are young people out of that exact same youth group that I am still have "coffees" with! And will continue to...even when they are not spiritually hungry YET... I feel it is so important to be faithful to people and pray them into the kingdom...not talk them into it. They know what I live for and they can see it and that's enough. And I have this feeling that they will know God in their own time. They are just on a journey of finding how life is empty without Him. It is during this time that we must stay faithful to them. Just some thoughts...Joanna
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Joanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Fw: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:44:40 -0500
----- Original Message -----From: ShieldsFamilySent: March 12, 2006 08:45Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teensLance, from the small piece below Id say Joanna has a heart of gold. I agree that rushing to judgment is one way to chase unbelievers away, and is not what Jesus did except with those who were religious hypocrites. First one must love and befriend, as she obviously does. But, as I told JD, we must also speak truth if we are to be ambassadors of Christ, just as Jesus did. He loved, He befriended, but He never hesitated to call sin a sin because He loved those He befriended enough to want to lead them to freedom from sin, as that is what ultimately will destroy our relationship with Him. That was His entire objective in dying on the cross, of course. Tough love is much harder for us to give than soft love. Tough love isnt harsh and angry; it is just the kind of love that pulls people towards the truth, even when it is tempting to gloss over the hard issues. Sin is the elephant in the room; do we love people so much that we pretend it isnt there, or do we really love them enough to address the obvious? The fleshly Believer takes the easy path of just loving and being loved, while the Spirit-filled Believer uses the truths of the Word to deliver the captives from sin as well as unbelief. Like being a parent, a Christian mentor always holds up the goal and then walks with you towards it. Poor parents are those who give love, love, love, and never balance that with self-discipline and hard workthe children are ruined for life by their own selfishness and laziness. Jesus defined our goal as His disciples: Luke 5: 32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. That, of course, is the issue I continually have with those of the liberal Christian persuasionthey have no fear of sin, for themselves or others. They dont realize that sin is what truly ails us. This is a hollow gospel that allows many to die in their sins. IzzyJohn 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:05 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teensWell, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of instances pop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker from the bank where I work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in England and considers himself a believer in God and Christ but would no longer go to a church anymore because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together. He began to share his hurts about this situation and then we got into one of the best discussions I've ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lot to Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life when they should have been listening and loving him and not judging him. How wonderful at the end of the book when Job not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great victory there and much to be learned from that story. Another situation I am reminded of is happening in my church right now with a young teenager who is pregnant and has come to our church for shelter. While she loves the Lord and clings to His love at this hard time in her life, she is also still involved with her boyfriend outside of marriage right now and realizes her situations are not perfect. I have just chosen as a youth ministry leader to walk beside her, with no judgments given, and just let the Word of the God speak to her and let her make her choices...letting her know God's great love just as she is. I feel as if as a church, if we come out of the little religious bubble we've allowed ourselves to be in...much awaits us. Sure life will not be black and white but it will be interesting and beautiful...as diverse as each person's dna and personality is...it is in these simply unique ways that God does touch and change each life...not in cookie-cutter ways or via textbook answers! I hope this helps somewhat...would love to continue the conversation!! All the best to all of you...Roll up your sleeves and get into the amazing mix of life with others...God will pop up in the most surprising places!! My e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] if any of you care to contact me at any time! Thank you!
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