Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] torrance and logic

[knpraise]

I think David might say,  It IS logical, all of it  --  we just don't know all the facts as of yet."  

 

I would think   all our discussion about logic as applied to the knowing of God suffers from this present time limitation,  making necessary the self-revealing that TFT speaks of.   Am I off course here?  The fact that we don't have all the facts, makes the fact of knowing God by logic an illogical fact  --  AT THIS TIME.  True?

 

jd

 

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Debbie Sawczak

To: 'Lance Muir'

Sent: March 20, 2006 08:35

Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] torrance and logic

The TFT quote is apropos. I am appreciating the way Victor uses the word 'logic' to mean something similar to what 'logos' means as used by TFT below; it is always the logic of something, that is, peculiar to something. It strikes me that the unqualified use of the word, i.e., as a sort of absolute standard to which all truth must conform, is the same thing as rationalism.  

 

What David calls the 'esoteric' sense of rationalism is just the normal sense. Interestingly, if he applies his own kind of logic, the distinction between reason as the source of truth and reason as the standard (or criterion) of truth is spurious, for if everything conforms to reason, then everything is ultimately discoverable by reason.  

 

D

---

From: Lance Muir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 7:17 AM
To: Debbie Sawczak
Subject: Fw: [TruthTalk] torrance and logic

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: March 19, 2006 20:15

Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] torrance and logic

 

David , in other posts of the day,  I find you saying that yoou and Torrance are in agreement concerninglogic.    I may ahve misunderstood your wording, but that was what you said according to my perspective. 

 

Below you say this:

 

If you define "rationalist" in the more esoteric sense of the idea that
reason is the source of truth, then I do not believe the Holy Spirit is a
rationalist.  By this definition, I am not a rationalist either.  However, I
do believe that the Holy Spirit is rational.  He also does not lie or employ
deception to mislead others.  The Holy Spirit uses rational thought to speak
to us, and he expects us to include rationality as a basis of belief and
action.             ---------- DM

 

Torrance might give caution with these words: 

 

".............. we should seek to understand Christ, not by way of observational deductions from his appearances, but in the light of what he is in himself in his internal relations with God, that is, in terms of his intrinsic significance disclosed through his self-witness and self-communication to us in word and deed and reflected through the evangelical tradition of the Gospel in the medium which he created for this purpose in the apostolic foundation of the Church  ......  When we adopt this kind of approach, whether in natural science or in theology, we find that progress in understanding is necessarily circular.  We develop a form of inquiry in which we allow some field of reality to disclose itself to us in the complex of its internal relations or its latent structure, and thus seek to understand it in the light of its own intrinsic intelligibility or logos ..............Thus we seek to understand something, not by schematising it to an external or alien framework of thought, but by operating wit h a framework of thought appropriate to it"  -------The Mediation of Christ  pp 4,5

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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