VACList Digest Thursday, November 28 2002 Volume 03 : Number 028
When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary Digest text To unsubscribe or change to an e-mail format, please go to http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html Topics in Today's Digest: [VACList] Chrome paint [VACList] Tail light assembly "riser" [VACList] Tom's archives Re: [VACList] Tail light assembly "riser" Re: [VACList] Estimating value of our Airstream Re: [VACList] Tail light assembly "riser" [VACList] Vintage Puller Re: [VACList] Vintage Puller [VACList] water heater installation Re: [VACList] Vintage Puller [VACList] Re: VACList Digest V3 #27 [VACList] heat exchanger on W/Htr RE: [VACList] Tail light assembly "riser" Re: [VACList] Vintage Puller Re: [VACList] Vintage Puller [VACList] Fwd: RE: Question about aluminum ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:28:35 -0800 From: "chyde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [VACList] Chrome paint I've just come across a company that produces a product that replicates chrome without using the plating process. It's called Fantachrome and is made by Alsa Corporation in Vernon, Ca. Their website is www.alsacorp.com . They claim that it produces a mirror-like surface. The complete process takes approximately 48 hrs and costs between $1-$5/sqft so it would be cost prohibitive to paint a complete Argosy however it sounds cost effective for all the small parts we're trying to refurbish. I have no connection with the company and haven't tried it although I do have lots of pitted chrome parts looking for an answer.. Just thought some of you might be interested. Colin Hyde 57 Sovereign of the Road 59 Ambassador International ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:03:36 -0800 From: Eric Cadora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [VACList] Tail light assembly "riser" Howdy all, I recently bought and and am a very proud owner of a 65 30ı Sovereign. It does, however need quite a bit of restoration, of which Iım about 2 months into. Iıve just finished putting in a new bathroom floor and before I put the walls back on I was hoping someone could help me locate the curved plastic tail light assemblies that begin on the flat part of the rear and continue around the curved part for a short distance (I believe they started making them out of metal in the 70ıs). Iıve tried quite a few different places all of whom tell me that Iım basically SOL in finding repros. Iıd like to avoid putting aluminum over the old spots and sticking new tail lights on the flat part of the tail end for the simple reason that itıll look cheesy. Any suggestions? Thanks, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:52:06 -0800 From: Stan Nicholson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [VACList] Tom's archives Just another "thanks" to Tom Patterson for the extraordinary resource he makes available to us all! Stan '72 Overlander ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:39:17 -0800 From: "chyde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Tail light assembly "riser" Hate to say it Eric but there was a pair of them NOS on Ebay several days ago. Keep watching and they may come up again. Colin Hyde - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Cadora" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 12:03 PM Subject: [VACList] Tail light assembly "riser" > Howdy all, > I recently bought and and am a very proud owner of a O65 30ı Sovereign. It > does, however need quite a bit of restoration, of which Iım about 2 months > into. Iıve just finished putting in a new bathroom floor and before I put > the walls back on I was hoping someone could help me locate the curved > plastic tail light assemblies that begin on the flat part of the rear and > continue around the curved part for a short distance (I believe they started > making them out of metal in the 70ıs). Iıve tried quite a few different > places all of whom tell me that Iım basically SOL in finding repros. Iıd > like to avoid putting aluminum over the old spots and sticking new tail > lights on the flat part of the tail end for the simple reason that itıll > look cheesy. Any suggestions? > Thanks, > Eric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:08:27 -0500 From: "Conrad & Tricia Holsomback" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Estimating value of our Airstream Carole, This month we sold our 1983 Excella 31'. Are you planning on selling your '79 or do you want the estimate for insurance purposes. If you are interested in selling contact us offlist and we will be happy to share what we did, and even the addresses of buyers who contacted us. We still receive one or two enquiries each day, even though we have removed our listings from the net. Tricia & Conrad Holsomback [EMAIL PROTECTED] - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carole Howard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 12:23 PM Subject: [VACList] Estimating value of our Airstream > Hello! We have a 31' Sovereign International. Its a 1979 model and is in very good shape. It has a new heater, air conditioner, and tires, and the refrigerator has been overhauled. It is the model with the center bathroom and two single beds in the back. The interior is in very good shape, but it does need new carpet and need to be polished on the exterior. It still has a fairly good shine, but could benefit from a good polishing. It has a forced air vent in the bathroom and a small propane heater in the front room. Could your readers please help me ascertain what it is worth. We live in southern Utah. Thank you, Carole > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text > > To unsubscribe or change to an digest format, please go to > http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:24:46 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [VACList] Tail light assembly "riser" Eric. Call me at 800-8777311. I will have some made out of fiberglass, which I should have done long time ago. Andy inlandrv.com airstreamparts.com airstreamcandy.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:36:14 -0800 From: "My Airstream" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [VACList] Vintage Puller Some time back I started a thread on vintage pullers. It was mostly a reaction to the rollover totalling of my 66 Ford F-250 Camper Special. During the course of that thread I developed a profile for my perfect vintage puller. I decided that I wanted a 1973 (latest year to avoid smog inspection in CA) Ford (because you don't really have to fix or repair daily) high top camper van (so I could do weekenders without having to pull the Airstream) with a smaller V-8 and C-4 tranny (for fuel economy and ruggedness). My ideal vintage puller would be at least a 3/4 ton frame and, because of the high top, would draft the Airstream nicely. Well last night my honey and I went up to check out such a van at an auto "hobby" shop in Escondido. It was so perfect that we had to pinch each other over dinner B4 making the purchase decision. Clean - Clean inside and out with a 302 V-8. Now I am ready to hear the horror stories of 302's but please bear in mind that my 66 Airstream Safari has been paired down to 3100 pounds in the last year. Bob Kiger http://cruiserbob.com 66 Airstream Safari Mira Mar Mobile Park Oceanside, CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:40:59 -0500 From: "Scott Scheuermann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Vintage Puller Bob, I have towed my 1960 Overlander (5000 pounds loaded) With a modern 318 V-8. It did not have the "towing" rear end gears, yet it still had plenty of power for the trailer. I was pleased traveling through the Wyoming Rockies. Scott - ----- Original Message ----- From: "My Airstream" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "VAC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 6:36 PM Subject: [VACList] Vintage Puller > Some time back I started a thread on vintage pullers. It was mostly a > reaction to the rollover totalling of my 66 Ford F-250 Camper Special. > During the course of that thread I developed a profile for my perfect > vintage puller. > > I decided that I wanted a 1973 (latest year to avoid smog inspection in CA) > Ford (because you don't really have to fix or repair daily) high top camper > van (so I could do weekenders without having to pull the Airstream) with a > smaller V-8 and C-4 tranny (for fuel economy and ruggedness). My ideal > vintage puller would be at least a 3/4 ton frame and, because of the high > top, would draft the Airstream nicely. > > Well last night my honey and I went up to check out such a van at an auto > "hobby" shop in Escondido. It was so perfect that we had to pinch each > other over dinner B4 making the purchase decision. Clean - Clean inside and > out with a 302 V-8. Now I am ready to hear the horror stories of 302's but > please bear in mind that my 66 Airstream Safari has been paired down to 3100 > pounds in the last year. > > Bob Kiger http://cruiserbob.com > 66 Airstream Safari > Mira Mar Mobile Park > Oceanside, CA > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text > > To unsubscribe or change to an digest format, please go to > http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:08:57 -0500 From: "Dick Parins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [VACList] water heater installation Jim asked: Just a question. Is your water heater leaking? - --- Yes, definitely leaking. I have the beast out now. If anyone wants the control for the cost of postage write me off-list. I think I can detach it without damage. It seemed to burn ok this summer but the aluminum tube from the control to the burner is broken. Dick '62 Bambi - -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:23:04 -0600 From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Vintage Puller My dad hauled a 24' Prowler (around 5000 pounds dry) with his '86 F-150 using a 302, Warner T-91 four speed manual transmission, and 3.50 rear axle. Vintage ford axle gears are available in a wide variety of ratios from 2.79: 1 (terrible for pulling) through at least 6.3:1 (for 5' diameter tires). Correcting speedometer gears can be a bigger bother but it is possible for a price. I lost that 302 to the fuel injection pressure regulator. It's diaphragm split filling the engine with liquid gasoline through the vacuum lines. Cranking broke pistons. Pistons in 302 have barely enough metal to resemble a piston. That makes them wear a little faster, but keeps them light. Based on my experience with a '65 F-350 and that '86 F-150, I'd replace all the rubber parts around the engine (hoses, especially fuel and water lines, and belts) plus the hoses and pistons in the wheel and master cylinders, and the water pump unless I had undeniable evidence that they had been replaced recently. I'd replace the fuel pump too. No need to let a split diaphragm pump gas into the crankcase. I have no experience with automatic transmissions, but a change of oil and filter would seem prudent. Similarly changing rear axle oil would have high priority. Then I'd want to pack the front wheel bearings and check the ball joints for wear. Gerald J. - -- Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer. Reproduction by permission only. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:49:35 -0500 From: "Dick Parins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [VACList] Re: VACList Digest V3 #27 Tuna wrote: Another option which you may want to investigate is the PrecisionTemp 'tankless' water heater: http://www.precisiontemp.com/RV-500Page1.html - ---- Anybody know if there are any dealers that discount these below factory recommended prices? They sound very nice. Thanks, Dick '62 Bambi - -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:03:40 -0500 From: "Todd McDonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [VACList] heat exchanger on W/Htr Howdy all, Saw the water heater thread and wanted to ask if anyone knows what the heat exchanger tube on the older bowen W/Htr does? The directions say to clamp a hose to it, implying that it is a suplemental pressure relief valve or something, I was just curious if anyone knew. Thanks tod47d _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:56:56 -0700 From: "Pete Ryner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [VACList] Tail light assembly "riser" Eric, Where are you located? Don't know for sure, but I may be able to help. Please contact me off list. Pete [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Eric Cadora Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [VACList] Tail light assembly "riser" Howdy all, I recently bought and and am a very proud owner of a 65 30ı Sovereign. It does, however need quite a bit of restoration, of which Iım about 2 months into. Iıve just finished putting in a new bathroom floor and before I put the walls back on I was hoping someone could help me locate the curved plastic tail light assemblies that begin on the flat part of the rear and continue around the curved part for a short distance (I believe they started making them out of metal in the 70ıs). Iıve tried quite a few different places all of whom tell me that Iım basically SOL in finding repros. Iıd like to avoid putting aluminum over the old spots and sticking new tail lights on the flat part of the tail end for the simple reason that itıll look cheesy. Any suggestions? Thanks, Eric - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text To unsubscribe or change to an digest format, please go to http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:09:28 -0500 From: Daisy Welch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Vintage Puller Oh oh if you love it, get it ! Daisy My Airstream wrote: > Some time back I started a thread on vintage pullers. It was mostly a > reaction to the rollover totalling of my 66 Ford F-250 Camper Special. > During the course of that thread I developed a profile for my perfect > vintage puller. > > I decided that I wanted a 1973 (latest year to avoid smog inspection in CA) > Ford (because you don't really have to fix or repair daily) high top camper > van (so I could do weekenders without having to pull the Airstream) with a > smaller V-8 and C-4 tranny (for fuel economy and ruggedness). My ideal > vintage puller would be at least a 3/4 ton frame and, because of the high > top, would draft the Airstream nicely. > > Well last night my honey and I went up to check out such a van at an auto > "hobby" shop in Escondido. It was so perfect that we had to pinch each > other over dinner B4 making the purchase decision. Clean - Clean inside and > out with a 302 V-8. Now I am ready to hear the horror stories of 302's but > please bear in mind that my 66 Airstream Safari has been paired down to 3100 > pounds in the last year. > > Bob Kiger http://cruiserbob.com > 66 Airstream Safari > Mira Mar Mobile Park > Oceanside, CA > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text > > To unsubscribe or change to an digest format, please go to > http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:47:11 -0800 (PST) From: Toby Folwick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VACList] Vintage Puller we pulled my 24 footer with a 302. no problem. we don't have mountains though. toby - --- Daisy Welch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Oh oh if you love it, get it ! > > Daisy > > My Airstream wrote: > > Some time back I started a thread on vintage > pullers. It was mostly a > > reaction to the rollover totalling of my 66 Ford > F-250 Camper Special. > > During the course of that thread I developed a > profile for my perfect > > vintage puller. > > > > I decided that I wanted a 1973 (latest year to > avoid smog inspection in CA) > > Ford (because you don't really have to fix or > repair daily) high top camper > > van (so I could do weekenders without having to > pull the Airstream) with a > > smaller V-8 and C-4 tranny (for fuel economy and > ruggedness). My ideal > > vintage puller would be at least a 3/4 ton frame > and, because of the high > > top, would draft the Airstream nicely. > > > > Well last night my honey and I went up to check > out such a van at an auto > > "hobby" shop in Escondido. It was so perfect that > we had to pinch each > > other over dinner B4 making the purchase decision. > Clean - Clean inside and > > out with a 302 V-8. Now I am ready to hear the > horror stories of 302's but > > please bear in mind that my 66 Airstream Safari > has been paired down to 3100 > > pounds in the last year. > > > > Bob Kiger http://cruiserbob.com > > 66 Airstream Safari > > Mira Mar Mobile Park > > Oceanside, CA > > > > > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > When replying to a message, please delete all > unnecessary original text > > > > To unsubscribe or change to an digest format, > please go to > > http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html > > > > > > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > When replying to a message, please delete all > unnecessary original text > > To unsubscribe or change to an digest format, please > go to > http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 01:18:24 -0800 (PST) From: John Leggett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [VACList] Fwd: RE: Question about aluminum Hi folks. While RJ has previously answered the question about recycling aircraft aluminum, I also received this response from an old college roommate working at Boeing and thought the VAC would find it interesting and educational. John Leggett 1968 Safari WBCCI 1154 - --- "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: Question about aluminum > Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 06:39:49 -0800 > > Hi John - > > The answer to the 747 aluminum alloy and potential > use on Airstreams is a > bit more complicated than one unfamiliar with > aircraft design may think, but > here goes. Most of the fuselage panels on aircraft > are made from 2024 clad > material. The cladding, as you probably know is > 1100 alloy, basically pure > aluminum, and is there not for strength but for > corrosion protection. This > is also what allows the mirror polished surface > which Airstream people like > so much and that we who build the aircraft hate so > much due to the potential > for dings during the long path of assembly. The > cladding is a mechanical > bond with the 2024 alloy and it is produced by > sandwiching a slab of 2024 > between two slabs of 1100 and rolling, and rolling , > and rolling. The > average skin thickness of our 747 fuselage is .063 > inch. As a comparison, > the average skin thickness of our narrow body > aircraft, (727, 737, 757) is > about .050. inch. The crown skin of the 747 is a > different story since it > is a 7000 series alloy and I would speculate that it > is 7075 alloy in that > older airframe. The crown skin is quite thick since > it is a compression > loaded component and probably wouldn't be of > interest to you folks. The > window belt area in also an extremely thick > structure so loads can be > transfered around the windows. (Designers hate > windows!) > > I would foresee several problems using existing > aircraft skins for trailer > applications. First is the thickness. Our skins > are stretch formed for > contour but them chem milled to take away as much > weight as possible. This > makes the interior of the skin very "sculptured". > The OML is masked and the > IML is progressively masked in the chem milling > process for the transition > areas between thicker and thinner. There tends to be > built up areas at each > frame. Ribs, by the way, are in the wing structure > and that design really > gets complicated as far as use of different alloys, > thicknesses, etc.. > > Another problem I see is the high quantity of > fasteners, mostly rivets, in > an existing skin panel. Since an airplane is really > just a bunch of rivets > flying in formation, they pose another interesting > issue. The rivets are > easy to drill out, not that we ever make an > incorrect installation and have > to replace any, but I would recommend not trying to > drill out the titanium > bolts. Using a split point drill for easy centering > and a drill diameter > equivalent to the rivet shank diameter, the rivet > heads are easy to drill > off and the rivet then pops right out. The issue is > that since the rivet is > most likely a flush head design, the hole needed to > clean up the countersink > and install a protruding head fastener will be > rather large and probably > won't match the other rivets in the trailer. As for > the titanium bolts, the > easiest way for removal is to cut the collar off and > punch the bolt out from > the inside. Many bolts aren't threaded, they are > grooved, so don't go batty > trying to unthread something that isn't treaded. > The older aircraft, > however, did use more threaded fasteners than > grooved fasteners. The > grooved bolts (lockbolts) are faster for us to > install and therefore save > money. > > I would also suggest avoiding trying to salvage any > of the belly skins. > That tends to be an area with corrosion problems and > can get rather ugly > depending who owned the aircraft and what was in the > cargo hold. A cargo > hold full of goats is not uncommon. You can > envision the rest! > > Stripping the paint without damaging the cladding is > my final area of > concern. Since the cladding is 10% of the skin > thickness, an .063 skin > obviously only has .006 inch of cladding on a side. > That doesn't leave much > room for scratch repair. Also, the cladding is easy > to move around with > power buffing and it is easy to buff right down to > the base alloy material. > While the base alloy can be buffed to a high polish, > it will never match the > mirror finish obtainable with the 2024 clad. You > may already know about > this and the darker spots that appear with excessive > buffing. > > So much for the short answer so pass it on as you > see fit and finally - GOOD LUCK!!!!! > > Rick > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:13:54 -0800 > From: "chyde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [VACList] Aircraft Aluminum ? > > Greetings all, > Anyone out there familiar with 747 Aircraft > construction? I work on the > former Plattsburgh NY Airbase and there is an old > 747 > that is in the > process of being scraped. The complete Airframe is > going to be chopped up > for scrap. Anyone know the alloy and material > thickness? Approximate > distance between the ribs? Is it compatible with > what > is used on our > vintage units? I have to do some repairs on one of > my > trailers and thought > this might be a good source of aluminum. It may be > far more trouble > than it's worth but I thought I'd look into it. > Thanks very much, > Colin Hyde > 57 Sovereign of the Road > 59 Ambassador International > > > > __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of VACList Digest V3 #28 **************************** When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary Digest text To unsubscribe or change to an e-mail format, please go to http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
