----- Original Message -----
From: Nelson, Jocelyn
To: Monica Hall
Cc: Vihuelalist
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Santiago de Murcia
Hi Monica,
You’re not getting old, you’re getting wise : )
Thank you for those kind words!
But are we sure Santiago de Murcia never went to the New World?
Well - yes. There is no reason to suppose that he did. It is now known
that he was born in Madrid in 1673 and died there in 1739 in poverty and
buried in a pauper's grave. The "biography" which was invented for him was
entirely a work of fiction.
The manuscripts which have come to light in Mexico and Chile were almost
certainly copied in Madrid and sent to patrons in the New World. The
British Library were certainly of the opinion that Passacalles y obras was
copied and bound in Spain - and they are experts in these matters. But
once the idea that he went to Mexico was put in circulation there was no
stopping it. I tried my best - a voice crying in the wilderness.
Monica
Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
Early Guitar, Music History
336 Fletcher Music Center
School of Music
East Carolina University
252.328.1255 office
252.328.6258 fax
nels...@ecu.edu
From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 15:58:36 +0000
To: Joceyln Nelson <nels...@ecu.edu>
Cc: Vihuelalist <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Capona?
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Capona?
I think the sarabanda and ciacona garnered comments from some shocked
Europeans in the 17th century or earlier. Maybe some performers are
making the most (too much?) of it now to sell CDs, but the dances
really did seem to scandalize Europeans back in the day. Perhaps more
than choreography bothered them (with the Spanish/New World dances):
rhythms, instrumentation, topics, maybe even the cultural group the
music originated from?
That may be true but I don't think it justifies playing the music of
Santiago de Murcia or Sanz in elaborate arrangements with massed percussion.
Neither of them ever went to the New World anyway.
But it goes much further than that. The idea that because the ciaccona was
originally a popular doesn't mean that anything based on it to be performed
in a popular manner. Kapsberger's villanelle may have been popular songs
but that doesn't seem to me to justify adding percussion to them as well as
batteries of strummed instruments. It seems to be fashionable to sing
everything in a very coarse in your face manner and interpret the words in
the most salacious way. An example of this is on a CD by the group
L'Arpeggiata which includes a Ciaccona di Paradiso e dell'Inferno performed
in a way that someone very aptly described to me as "wink wink nudge nudge
style". It's meant to be a serious dialogue about heaven and hell.
I don't think groups these recordings really have any insight into the
sensibilities of 17th century players.
I must be getting old.....
Monica
Yesteryear's hip hop?
Jocelyn
From: Monica Hall <[1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 21:42:03 +0000
To: Stuart Walsh <[2]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
Cc: Vihuelalist <[3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Capona?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Walsh" <[4]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
To: "Monica Hall" <[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[6]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Capona?
Exactly! I think this present day obsession with the idea that the
dances
were obscene and that being banned gives them some sort of instrinsic
merit
is a bit wide of the mark.
Monica, who is obsessed with obscenity and early dance!?
You should get out more and read more of the liner notes to CDs made by
groups like Les Otros!
When I read, a
while ago, that the early 'sarabanda' had been banned for lewdness in
some
places, I thought that that was just extraordinary. And now the capona
too, good grief! I think it would be fascinating to know what they were
on
about.
I think they waved their arms about a bit and wiggled their hips. If
you
have Lute 2007 you will see the illustration on the front cover. It's
on
my Facebook site too.
(I've got a book tucked away somewhere which says the same thing about
the
19th century waltz)
Sounds familiar.
Monica
(I just went to see ENO's production of Castor
and Pollux in which the artists spent a lot of taking their knickers
off -
unthinkable in Rameau's time. They were actually quite prudish.
But I
can see now why Guerau in his Poema Harmonica says something to the
effect that studying his complicated and difficult variations on the
dance pieces will keep you out of trouble.
Well he actaully says "Use it to banish idleness and raise your heart
to
God". But that's the sort of thing that they say in these prefaces.
They
were very high minded. How many players on this list raise their
hearts
to
God when playing?
Monica
-- R
On Dec 8, 2011, at 5:58 PM, Eloy Cruz wrote:
Dear Stuart, list
This is from Cotarelo y Mori's "Coleccion":
p. CCXXXVII. Capona (La) (Baile). Dicc. de Autoridades: ^3Son o
baile a modo
de la Mariona; pero mas rapido y bullicioso, con el cual y a cuyo
tanido se
cantan varias coplillas^2.
A very bad English translation could be:
Music and dance in the way of a Mariona, but faster and noisier;
to
which
music they use to sing several small coplas.
In a 17th cent. Spanish play, one of the characters says he won't
dance to
that music, because it is "of very bad circumstances", because the
word
capon is used to refer to a man who has been emasculated.
Best wishes
eloy
El [FECHA], "[NOMBRE]" <[DIRECCION]> escribio:
Hi Stuart,
I don't know what capona means, and I don't have the music
handy,
but I
enjoyed this. I like your tempo.
Best,
Jocelyn
From: Stuart Walsh [1]<[1][7]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 20:14:31 +0000
To: Vihuelalist [2]<[2][8]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: [VIHUELA] Capona?
Timo Peedu has edited some Carbonchi pieces (to be found on his
ning
early guitar page). Included are two short and simple but
unusual
pieces
with the title 'Capona'.
There are a couple of versions of a very fancy Capona by
Kapsberger
(including one by Rob Mackillop).
Any ideas what Capona means?
Here is a go at the simple ones by Carbonchi. If I have
misunderstood
the timing or the way it should be played, I'd like to know
(preferably
in a polite way!)
[3][3][9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I
Stuart
To get on or off this list see list information at
[4][4][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htm
l
--
References
1. [5][11]mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
2. [6][12]mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. [7][13]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I
4.
[8][14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. [15]mailto:[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
2. [16]mailto:[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. [17]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I
4. [18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
5. [19]mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
6. [20]mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
7. [21]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I
8. [22]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
2. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
5. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
6. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
7. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
8. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I
10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
11. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
12. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
13. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I
14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
15. mailto:[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
16. mailto:[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
17. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I
18. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
19. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
20. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
21. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I
22. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
