On 12/29/2009 11:19 AM, Jones Beene wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Michel Jullian > > >> - but the 2 eV available >> from loading alone without deuterium (contrast that to about .5 eV if the >> hydrogen were burned in air) is a huge surprise - >> > MJ: Jones, where did you get that .5 eV figure? I did the maths and found > about 1.5 eV instead, here is the Google calculator result; > > ((294.6 / 2) / 6.02e23) * kJ = 1.52719998 electron volts > > > Michel, the half-eV figure is the common 'real world' estimate based on the > maximum average temperature of the resultant steam
Isn't combustion of hydrogen in air rather different from the situation we've got here? > - but even so, it appears > you did not first deduct the dissociation energy of O2 and H2 and then later > deduct the parasitic losses of NOx, peroxides etc. and the other losses that > are expected in actual practice, for combustion in air? Parasitic losses, in particular, would not seem to apply in the present case. > IOW there are lies, damn lies, and theoretical calculations ;) when trying > to go from 'paper numbers' to actual practice. Kitamura's numbers were > indicated to be actual practice (if they can be trusted) so it is fair to > contrast those numbers with that which would happen if one were to actually > burn H2 in air - and .5 eV is a fair estimate even if you discount the 80% > of air which is nearly inert. > > > Since water can be split into H2 and O2 with 1.23 volts - does it stand to > reason that one could get 1.5 eV in return ? That was rhetorical; and of > course this one of nature's built-in cases of "systemic overunity" - > Now you're neglecting the splitting cost of H2->2H and O2->2H. > ... except for the damn lie that it simply does not work out that way in > practice - but it does serve to contrast the large disparity of the "actual > with the calculated". > > >> Did I get it wrong? >> > Well, let's say that you got it partly right and mostly wrong - if your > intent was to suggest that hydrogen can be burned in air with resultant > steam being formed at about 17,000 degrees K. > > Jones > >
