Can you tell us anything more about this replication of the Rossi system?
What catalysts are they using?
Would you please clarify what you mean by 800 watts per liter of powder? Do
they
have to have one liter of nickel powder in the reactor to produce 800 watts.
________________________________
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com>
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax <a...@lomaxdesign.com>
Sent: Mon, February 21, 2011 5:38:14 PM
Subject: [Vo]:Rossi credibility
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax <a...@lomaxdesign.com> wrote:
Okay, to Jed, and perhaps to others, this is confirmation of prior work. But
because it's "secret protocol" it's weak in that respect.
It isn't all that secret. I have known that it is Ni-H cold fusion for a year,
and people in Italy have known for 2 years. Groups there and in the U.S. are
working somewhat frantically to determine what the other 2 elements are. One of
them told me that they have achieved the equivalent of 800 W per liter of
powder
(with a smaller actual volume), which is not far from what Rossi reported.
Ed Storms and others at ICCF-16 remarked that Rossi has already revealed the
biggest and most important secret: that this can be done, i.e., that high
temperature, high power density Ni-H cold fusion exists. Others will soon
figure
out how it is done. The situation is somewhat similar to what happened after
the
first use of atomic weapons. Scientists in Russia had detailed reports from
spies, but even if they had not had these reports, they would have soon figured
out how to make a bomb because the biggest secret was that you could make a
bomb. Japanese scientists secretly figured out a great deal about it, hiding
their research from the occupation.
I agree that the existence of (possibly) similar prior work is supportive, and
is reason to be less likely to dismiss Rossi out-of-hand.
It is similar. No doubt about it. Assuming Rossi's claims are real, there is
plenty of precedent for them.
Jed, you have pointed out that he may be shooting himself in the foot with his
secrecy.
He may yet shoot himself. It is an awkward strategy that can only work for a
short time.
It's just not true that if he disclosed everything he'd "lose everything." It
depends on how he discloses and to whom.
>
The only way he can succeed is with a patent. That's what I thought, and
discussions with people in the know at ICCF-16 confirmed that.
His strategy might be reasonable. But a consequence of that strategy is that
I'm
not going to believe that Rossi is a demonstration of cold fusion.
That's rather short-sighted of you. You do not know what is going on inside a
Pd-D cathode either. You can look right at it, and learn all there is to know
from the ENEA database, but you still do not know. If U. Bologna publishes a
more detailed, convincing report describing the 18-hour run, there will be
practically no room left to doubt this. David Kidwell told me that if they
could
have the Rossi device in their 10 kW-scale testbed at the NRL, they could
conclude within an hour that it is real, and they would not have to know the
first thing about what is inside it. (The testbed is described in ICCF-16 paper
ET01. It is way better than the U. Bologna calorimeter. It resembles the
industrial-scale testbed at Hydrodynamics, Inc., which was designed by the Dean
of Mech. Eng. at Georgia Tech. That system was bulletproof as far as I know --
and as far as the Dean knew.)
Kidwell did say he would insist they conduct a test with Rossi not present. I
think this is slight case of magical thinking. I do not see how a person
standing in a room can affect dial thermometers and watt-meters.
I'm not going to claim that it's fraud, on the other hand. I'm going to claim
that *I don't know* and that I think I don't have enough information to decide.
>
You will soon, if we get a better report from Levi. I think you can be 95% sure
it is real now. The fraud hypothesis is awfully far fetched, and getter farther
fetched with each new test. Frankly, I don't think it is worth worrying about.
Again, depending on so many details about which we know nothing, so far, and
may
not ever know.
What do you mean "we" Kemo Sabe? (Quoting the old joke about the Lone Ranger
surrounded by hostile Indians.)
I've argued that making a huge fuss over Rossi simply discredits the field . . .
I don't see why. For one thing, other researchers are not responsible for what
Rossi claims, except perhaps Focardi. Levi is not a cold fusion research. Or he
wasn't before Jan. 14.
Some of the damage will be done anyway. People are already using Rossi as an
example of overblown, inflated claims.
I don't see any damage. People will say that it is fraud or inflated no matter
who makes what claim. Heck, they say that about Energetics Tech., even after
SRI
replicated them spot on with some cathodes. So far I have not seen any evidence
that Rossi has made inflated claims. On the contrary, he said it was 12 kW and
it was probably closer to 15 kW. That will not surprise anyone familiar with
calorimetry. The method they used was very lossy, as I said.
That could backfire, for them, but, then, if Rossi doesn't show up with his 1
MW
reactor, we end up looking very foolish.
I doubt he will complete that within a year! I am hoping we can persuade him to
let the NRL and others test the smaller gadget. That's better than a 1 MW
machine. More convincing, in a way.
I sure as heck would not want to be present in Florida when they turn on the
big
machine! The radiation Celani detected lasted for a fraction of a second. If
something like that lasts for a few seconds, I imagine it might kill everyone
within 100 m. It seems like a stupendously bad idea to scale up to 1 MW at this
stage.
If someone trusts Rossi, thinks that his work is solid, great.
I wouldn't trust Rossi personally as far as I can throw him. I trust
calorimetry. I trust that no stage magician or con-man can fool a watt-meter or
thermometer. I have never heard of an incident in which a con-man did manage to
fool scientists using their own, off-the-shelf instruments. Believe me, I have
seen and heard of a wide variety of con-men and bogus over-unity energy claims.
I am practically an expert on that. None of them stood up to more than a few
days of tests. None were replicated, and none were replications of previous
work
(as Rossi is).
Don't forget that Levi et al. conducted tests and calibrations for 6 weeks
prior
the Jan. 14 test. It there was something like a hidden thermal mass, they would
have seen that in a few hours the first day. You do not have to know anything
about what is in the machine to see that. Calorimetry alone tells you a great
deal about a black box. As I said, so far, it is the only reliable means we
have
of knowing anything about the contents or inner workings of the cathode black
boxes in Pd-D cold fusion.
- Jed
