At 08:05 PM 12/26/2012, you wrote:
Liar liar liar ..... I'm not surprised after all I know who you are
and your religion.
There is an executive order. Obama issued it on the day he took
power. It covers his BC in Hawaii, his Occidental College records
and his other thesis records from Harvard.
Cool. I cited that Executive Order. It has zero effect on his birth
certificate or other pre-Presidential papers. It's an order covering
Presidential papers.
That order has *nothing* to do with the documents Jojo mentions. He's
lying, and he keeps lying. For some time, it was possible to claim
that he was merely mistaken. No, he's lying, he's responsible,
because he has turned away from the most obvious opporunties to notice error.
Like right now, let's see if he takes advantage of it this time.
Here is a copy of the order.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2009-01-26/pdf/E9-1712.pdf
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the
laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish policies
and procedures governing the assertion of executive privilege by incumbent
and former Presidents in connection with the release of Presidential records
by the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) pursuant
to the Presidential Records Act of 1978, it is hereby ordered as follows
[...]
(e) ''Presidential records'' refers to those documentary materials maintained
by NARA pursuant to the Presidential Records Act, including Vice Presidential
records.
Because it's obvious that some people have looked at it and jumped to
conclusions, here is a page that goes into great detail:
http://www.thefogbow.com/birther-claims-debunked1/other-stuff/#EO
Lomax is getting blatant in his lies hoping that Vorticians reading
are dumb. He has such a low opinion of the intelligence of
Vorticians, or a superior sense of his intelligence, that he does
not even bother to hide the lies. He lies outright.
I say what I say openly, in plain sight. There is nothing to hide. I
am a known person, I have a reputation to maintain, my future depends on it.
Jojo
PS. Expert spin with Naudin. I am not, never have, and never will
be associated with Naudin. This is "guilt by association". A well
known debating technique to spin the issue.
I did not claim or imply that Naudin and Jojo are associated. Jojo is
not responsible for Naudin, nor Naudin for Jojo.
Rather, I related these discussions to matters which are of list
import. That is, "I said similar things about Naudin." I'm making a
general argument, that when one is in egregious disregard of the
truth, is informed and has a clear and extended opportunity to
correct false statements of weight, one becomes a liar even if it was
not originally intended that way.
Ignorance *is* an excuse when it comes to the sin of lying. But when
ignorance becomes wilful, out of pride or arrogance or hatred, or any
of the other niceties, the excuse vanishes. Liars lose credibility,
as Naudin has lost credibility, and as Jojo has lost whatever
credibility he might have had.
I was suprised, but I received mail today from one of the top cold
fusion scientists in the world, thanking me about my comments about
Islam here. Apparently they were found interesting. I received
another mail today from a prominent activist in the field, pretty
much the same.
I wasn't seeking this. But I don't mind it. Don't worry, I have no
intention of turning this list into a Muslim tract. I've only been
responding to gross misinformation, of a kind that has some credence
in some segments of society in the U.S. I would not bring this stuff
here, without that reason, and I would not use this list to generally
try to correct "society" on these topics.
This whole birther thing was brought here by Jojo, entirely. He
thinks that some of us like Obama, so he's trying to get us riled up.
Now he's off onto the Illuminati, [Z]eta Reticuli, and what else?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Abd ul-Rahman Lomax" <a...@lomaxdesign.com>
To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT] Moon God, Dozens of wives, and marriageable age
Conclusion, there is no such Executive Order. It appears that Jojo
Jaro believes birther myths, long after they have been conclusively
and with evidence debunked. If he fails to apologize, or point to
an actual order doing what he claimed, he is, effectively, a liar.
I've said similar things about Naudin, because he made blatant
errors in his MAHG investigation, stonewalled friendly inquiries,
and eft the page with those major errors (that totally reverse his
conclusions) without corrections, thus continuing to mislead the
public. That's culpable. Until he fixes this, he's a *liar*.
If Naudin were a serious investigator, he'd do it in a flash. He
made a mistake. Embarrassing. So what? All it takes is "Oops!" and
it is almost entirely over.
And if Jojo were interested in truth, he'd do the same. From long
experience, now, I concluded he isn't interested in truth. He is
interested in *insult* and *winning.*
At 02:24 PM 12/26/2012, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
At 01:07 AM 12/26/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:
Funny thing is, the new governor of Hawaii Ambercrombie - a
democrat, strong supporter of Obama, wanted to silence the
birther movement once and for all. So, he sought to dig into
Obama's vault BC. Guess what? Even he can't penetrate the veil
of corruption Obama has put up to block access to his vault
records. Why is there an executive order to block access to Obama's vault BC.
Fascinating. Is there such an Executive Order? That would be quite
odd. Legally, the President has no authority over Hawaiian
officials, unless a federal issue could be shown. and this would not qualify.
Jojo went on to repeat the Executive Order claim that Obama is
preventing access to the vault certificate. Is that true? Is there
an "Executive Order to block access."
What can be found on this?
The basis for the claim might be covered here:
http://www.politifact.com/subjects/obama-birth-certificate/
Is Politifact results from checking claims. It's remarkable how
many claims are shown as flaming lies, and how many of the rest are
shown as false. There really are only a few related claims that
they show as true. This is not one of them:
http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2011/feb/27/leo-berman/state-rep-leo-berman-says-hawaii-governor-cant-fin/
The claim: State Rep. Leo Berman says Hawaii governor can't find
anything that says Obama was born in Hawaii
They consider the claim by Berman to be false. What they found
showed that Berman apparently misinterpreted statements by
Abercrombie. What had actually happened?
... The Associated Press reported that Abercrombie's office had
ended its effort to make public more information about Obama's
birth. The story does not say that Abercrombie had failed to find
evidence of Obama's birthplace, but that the state's attorney
general had told the governor that he can't disclose birth
documentation without the person's consent. "There is nothing more
that Gov. Abercrombie can do within the law to produce a
document," Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said.
We wondered whether Abercrombie sought Obama's permission to
obtain more proof of his birth. The White House wouldn't comment,
but Abercrombie told CNN on Dec. 27 that "we haven't had any of
those discussions."
Per the authenticity of the document posted online by Obama, our
colleagues at PolitiFact National pointed out July 1, 2009, that
FactCheck.org, a respected fact-checking unit at the University of
Pennsylvania, had traveled to Chicago to examine the document and
concluded that it's legitimate.
Unfortunately, that would be a reference to the "short form"
certificate. This page was written before the long form was released.
Abercrombie had apparently not requested permission.. My
speculation about why he'd not look at the vault certificate
himself, and announce it, turns out to be confirmed as the reason.
It's illegal without consent!
Were there later developments on this? (Sure: Obama requested the
long form, and then released copies of it, both as direct copies,
given to the media, and on-line, as a readable, but compressed
copy, as would be a necessity.)
Was there an Executive Order? Jojo claims it. That's a specific
kind of document, and is not informal, and obviously is not binding
on anyone not informed of it (and may not be binding, period, but
that's another issue.) I was concerned about Jojo's claim of such
an Order, which is why I'm investigating.
The claim is common. There was an Obama Executive Order that is
commonly asserted to prevent release of his birth certificate.
That's a totally naive and imbalanced understanding of the Order.
http://www.thefogbow.com/birther-claims-debunked1/other-stuff/
covers it and links to the Order itself.
However, is there *another* Executive Order? To get the real poop
(or "genuine bullshit"), I'll need to go to birther sources, perhaps.
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=246370 refers
to the same order, but also to
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi/read/246335 which,
in turn, refers to a Sheriff Arpaio page on WND. Which showed
bupkis unless maybe I gave them my email address, don't know. Not
about to do that. Dead end.
I've been watching Arpaio for years, from long before this affair.
Is he claiming an Executive Order?
Here is the Arpaio press release:
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/ksaz/pdfs/Birth%20Certificate%20Investigation%20Part%20II.pdf
It doesn't mention an Executive Order. It raises a concern about
Hawaiian law regarding alien birth certificates. As I've mentioned,
this is a common practice, I've registered two out-of-the-US
births. I don't think that these certificates mispepresent the
actual birth. They simply provide a way to obtain a local birth
certificate if you need one. We were advised to get them because we
wouldn't want our children to have to get a certificate from China
or Ethiopia. Arpaio doesn't seem to realize that this is common
everywhere. Arpaio is confusing "U.S. citizenship" with
"Natural-born citizenship." They are quite different issues. By
U.S. law, our daughters became U.S. Citizens the moment they
entered the US on the visa they had. They did not become
"natural-born citizens." They would not be eligible to be elected
President. Damn shame, actually, but that's the Constitution at present!
http://www.mcso.org/MultiMedia/PressRelease/Sheriffreleasesobamafindings.pdf
gives more details on Arpaio's "findings."
I don't know if anyone else is concerned about an Arizona sheriff
investigating people and events that took place outside his
jurisdiction and that don't relate to any alleged crimes in his
bailiwick. But this is Arpaio, he's not shy! He used his "Cold Case
Possee," which is non-governmental, and which does not operate with
public funds. The investigation was requested by the Tea Party.
Arpaio is, however, using the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office web
site and seal to issue his press releases. Not really my concern at
this point, I don't live in Arizona.
I found no mention of an Executive Order.
Here is an example of a birther claim about an Executive Order.
http://www.infowars.com/obama-signs-executive-order-barring-release-of-his-birth-certificate/
Basically, the guy doesn't understand what he's reading. It's the
same Executive Order, that has nothing to do with personal data
outside of the Presidential documents, and would have no effect on
access to them.
http://www.wnd.com%2F2012%2F11%2Fnow-white-house-petition-seeks-obamas-birth-certificate/
This is a birther page, from last month. The "reporter," repeats
the Executive Order myth. Yes, his first order sealed "his own
records" form public access, but that order was only about normal
presidential executive privilege, it has nothing to do with outside
personal records. In many comments, this reporter continues to
propagate myths, asking questions that have been answered (like the
question about Abercrombie) that were *long ago answered*, as if
there is no answer and the questions being unanswered demonstrates
cause for suspicion.
My conclusion, I've researched this enough. Absent some specific
assertion, I'm not looking more. There is every sign that an
Executive Order myth developed out of the original Order that had
nothing to do with the issue, all references I could find pointed
to that (or weren't explicit.)
As to Sheriff Arpaio, *birthers* are complaining that he hasn't
released his information. The reporter above cites Arpaio, but not
by name, instead calling his work "law enforcement conclusions,"
which is highly misleading. Arpaio's investigation was not "law
enforcement," it was not an official investigation, even though
Arpaio abused his position in how he announced it. It worked. It
misled the reporter, if he actually cares about fact, which isn't clear.
One more point of interest here. I hadn't seen any one address the
alleged problem with Hawaaian law, I had only my own knee-jerk opinion.
http://gen.doh.hawaii.gov/sites/har/AdmRules1/11-120.pdf Foreign
persons adopted in Hawaii.
Sec. 11-120-4 Issuance of certificate.
Upon submission of the application as provided herein, the
registrar shall prepare and file the Hawaii certificate of foreign
birth that shall contain the following information:
(1) Information about the adopted person:
(A) Full name as set forth in the adoption decree;
(B) Sex;
(C) Date of birth; and
(D) Place of birth.
(2) Information about the adoptive parents:
(A) Name of father and maiden name of mother;
(B) Date of birth of each parent;
(C) Place of birth of each parent; and
(D) Mailing address of parents.
(3) The statement "This certificate is not evidence of United
States citizenship for the child or the
parents named above." [Eff. FEB 19 1981] (Auth: HRS Secs. 321-9,
338-2) (Imp: HRS Secs.
338-17.7(c), 338-20.5)
http://www.thefogbow.com/birther-claims-debunked1/birth-certificates/birth-certificates-101/
covers the issue. There is no sign that Hawaiian law creates a
problem with identifying "foreign birth certificates."
http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/second-arpaio-press-conference/
covers the Arpaio investigation, with astonishing thoroughness.
