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Regards, Sam Sam Lawry Acting Content Manager (Mon-Wed) Online Services Victoria Legal Aid www.legalaid.vic.gov.au 9269 0279 >>> <wsg@webstandardsgroup.org> 11/12/10 23:40 >>> ********************************************************************* WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST ********************************************************************* From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22G=2ES=F8rtun=22?= <gunla...@c2i.net> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 13:57:23 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] all media queries in one style sheet Vs individually served Years since I tested what browsers actually did, and much has changed since then. I do prefer to spread styles in logical groups over a few stylesheets, to a certain degree. If nothing else it helps on maintenance and reuse. > 1. Will the desktop browser stops loading the above 3 media unless > requested? A browser will load everything, as long as it supports, or pretends to support, the link or @import media and queries used. It will put styles to use as needed and supported. > 2. If I link each media type individually, does the desktop browser > actually load the above 3 style sheets? Same answer. > Similarly, will it not better for targeted device not loading two of the > media types? If a targeted device loads only the correct style sheets, it > will be 2 HTTP requests (one for main style and one for targeted media type) > but the file size of each style sheet is significant reduce, and this seems > to be beneficial especially for bandwidth concerned mobile devices. Yes? Back in the days we used link and/or @import media and queries as filters to /hack/ browsers - to make them load or not load specific stylesheets. Today we at least try to be a bit more advanced, and use link and/or @import media and queries as filters to /target/ browsers and devices - to make them load or not load specific stylesheets. Reasons may have changed amongst conscious web designers , but browsers are evolving, so too much deliberate filtering at the link and @import stages may mean an existing or future browser/device that can, and should be given a chance to, handle specific styles, won't load them. So, it is my advice that you don't filter more than you have to at the link and @import stages, even if that means slightly fatter stylesheets. ********************************************************************* From: David Dorward <da...@dorward.me.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 12:59:08 +0000 Subject: Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML? On 11 Nov 2010, at 10:50, Chris Taylor wrote: > From: David Dorward > Sent: 11 November 2010 10:30 > >> On 11 Nov 2010, at 09:18, Chris Taylor wrote: >>> In fact, this is HTML5-style - <!doctype html> - but will work fine in all browsers (as far as I know). > >> When you come to perform basic QA using a validator, on the other hand, you get very different results. > > Agreed, and it is a problem, but how much of that problem is validators not being updated? To be honest, if that's the only error I get from a validator I'd feel I was doing a decent job. The crux is, as it has always been, what actually happens in browsers themselves. Error? I wasn't suggesting that a validator would complain about the Doctype. It will either fail to recognise it (and thus refuse to do any validation) or it will trigger HTML5 validation. This isn't built on HTML 4.01 validation since HTML 5 is not an SGML application. The result is that you get a completely different validation engine — one that isn't mature and is still trying to track a moving target. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk ********************************************************************* From: Micky Hulse <mickyhulse.li...@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 09:31:32 -0800 Subject: Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML? On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 1:18 AM, Chris Taylor <chris.tay...@figureout.com> wrote: > And there's Andy Clarke's new book "Hardboiled Web Design" which deals with > HTML5 and more: http://hardboiledwebdesign.com/ > So "is HTML5 ready", as far as http://ishtml5readyyet.com/ sees it isn't the > same as "can I use parts of this spec yet?" I just finished reading HTML5 for web designers, and I thought it was a pretty good introduction to HTML5. <http://books.alistapart.com/products/html5-for-web-designers> An easy read. Very short book. Cheers, Micky ********************************************************************* From: cat soul <cats...@thinkplan.org> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:23:07 -0800 Subject: Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML? On Nov 11, 2010, at 9:31 AM, Micky Hulse wrote: > I just finished reading HTML5 for web designers, and I thought it was > a pretty good introduction to HTML5. > > <http://books.alistapart.com/products/html5-for-web-designers> > > An easy read. Very short book. > > Cheers, > Micky I see that one of the choices is the eBook form...can that be read on a Mac? thanks! cs ********************************************************************* From: Micky Hulse <mickyhulse.li...@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:47:26 -0800 Subject: Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML? Howdy! On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 11:23 AM, cat soul <cats...@thinkplan.org> wrote: > I see that one of the choices is the eBook form...can that be read on a Mac? Good question! Looks like the "ebook" includes PDF, ePub, and mobi formats. I am sure there are ePub readers on Mac. I usually don't mind reading the PDF myself. :) Have a great day! Cheers, Micky -- Micky Hulse Web Content Editor The Register-Guard 3500 Chad Drive Eugene, OR 97408 Phone: (541) 338-2621 Fax: (541) 683-7631 Web: <http://www.registerguard.com> ********************************************************************* From: Micky Hulse <mickyhulse.li...@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:50:21 -0800 Subject: Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML? On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Micky Hulse <mickyhulse.li...@gmail.com> wrote: > Looks like the "ebook" includes PDF, ePub, and mobi formats. Looks like one of the chapters is online: "A Brief History of Markup" <http://www.alistapart.com/articles/a-brief-history-of-markup/> I thought that chapter was a pretty interesting read. :) Cheers, Micky -- Micky Hulse Web Content Editor The Register-Guard 3500 Chad Drive Eugene, OR 97408 Phone: (541) 338-2621 Fax: (541) 683-7631 Web: <http://www.registerguard.com> ********************************************************************* From: wilbur.j.pere...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 19:59:41 +0000 Subject: Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML? Yep, there's the kindle reader for the Mac and a couple of other readers. Regards, Wilbur Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone -----Original Message----- From: Micky Hulse <mickyhulse.li...@gmail.com> Sender: li...@webstandardsgroup.org Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:47:26 To: <wsg@webstandardsgroup.org> Reply-to: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML? Howdy! On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 11:23 AM, cat soul <cats...@thinkplan.org> wrote: > I see that one of the choices is the eBook form...can that be read on a Mac? Good question! Looks like the "ebook" includes PDF, ePub, and mobi formats. I am sure there are ePub readers on Mac. I usually don't mind reading the PDF myself. :) Have a great day! Cheers, Micky -- Micky Hulse Web Content Editor The Register-Guard 3500 Chad Drive Eugene, OR 97408 Phone: (541) 338-2621 Fax: (541) 683-7631 Web: <http://www.registerguard.com> ******************************************************************* List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ******************************************************************* ********************************************************************* From: cat soul <cats...@thinkplan.org> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 12:01:18 -0800 Subject: Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML? On Nov 11, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Micky Hulse wrote: > Howdy! > > On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 11:23 AM, cat soul <cats...@thinkplan.org> > wrote: >> I see that one of the choices is the eBook form...can that be read >> on a Mac? > > Good question! > > Looks like the "ebook" includes PDF, ePub, and mobi formats. > > I am sure there are ePub readers on Mac. I usually don't mind reading > the PDF myself. :) thanks for that...I'll have to check it out. That title looks like a must-have...they offer another for CSS as well, endorsed by none other than Eric Meyer. cs ********************************************************************* From: Micky Hulse <mickyhulse.li...@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 12:06:03 -0800 Subject: Re: [WSG] mixing media queries? Howdy, On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 2:16 PM, tee <weblis...@gmail.com> wrote: > ...<snip>... > The example in this site brings clarity. > http://protofluid.com/?c=mediaQueries Oooh, thanks for link. Also, thanks for posting your observations and solutions. Glad you got it figured out! Have a great day! Cheers, Micky -- Micky Hulse Web Content Editor The Register-Guard 3500 Chad Drive Eugene, OR 97408 Phone: (541) 338-2621 Fax: (541) 683-7631 Web: <http://www.registerguard.com> ********************************************************************* From: Micky Hulse <mickyhulse.li...@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 12:08:25 -0800 Subject: Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML? On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 12:01 PM, cat soul <cats...@thinkplan.org> wrote: > thanks for that...I'll have to check it out. That title looks like a > must-have...they offer another for CSS as well, endorsed by none other than > Eric Meyer. Yah, I think I will pick that one up also! :) "CSS3 For Web Designers" <http://books.alistapart.com/products/css3-for-web-designers> "This book will be released on November 16th." Should be a good read. :) Cheers, Micky -- Micky Hulse Web Content Editor The Register-Guard 3500 Chad Drive Eugene, OR 97408 Phone: (541) 338-2621 Fax: (541) 683-7631 Web: <http://www.registerguard.com> ********************************************************************* From: "Webb, KerryA" <kerrya.w...@act.gov.au> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 22:09:13 +0000 Subject: RE: [WSG] XHTML or HTML? > > On 10 Nov 2010, at 22:34, cat soul wrote: > > > Any thoughts on which we ought to be using > > HTML, since it works in IE < 9 without having to pretend it is HTML. > > 4.01, since it is a stable recommendation with mature QA tools (unless yo u > have a need for features added in HTML5 and are willing to life on the > bleeding edge) > > Strict, unless you need something only offered by Transitional (in which > case think twice as not being in Strict is a clue that you probably > shouldn't use something). > > > > , and what information ought to be up at top of an HTML page, along wit h > <!DOCTYPE>, etc? > > Title is mandatory. > > Meta charset if you think people are more likely to view a locally saved > copy of the document than a copy that has gone through a transcoding > proxy. > > Links to any stylesheets. > > Scripts that need to run before the page has finished loading. > And, as specified by WCAG 2.0, the lang attribute in the HTML tag. 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