+1 - all of it On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 9:56 PM, David Adams via 4D_Tech < [email protected]> wrote:
> Thanks to TIm and Brian for responding here, always appreciated. > > There is no lack of clarity from 4D that the official channel is to post on > the forums. Before that, it was bugs.4d.fr. That's always been clear. > Heck, > I can't even count the number of times I said that on this list over the > years. Of course when I said it, I didn't really think much good would come > from it. I can open up 4D today and point out tons of bugs (cosmetic, > usability, functional, and crashing) that have been known about for years > and versions. So, yeah, reporting bugs doesn't have a lot to do with bugs > getting fixed. > > Pardon me for being so simple minded, but what remains completely unclear > is why customer information is ignored. See, that's the issue: You've got > customers sending you information, you know what they say, and you say > "nope, doesn't count." That's about 4D's relationship with your customers, > it's not about your customers doing things wrong. "Posting on the NUG > doesn't count" just feels like a weak cop-out. That 4D doesn't see this, I > just don't understand. > > If you guys used any sort of normal, commercial bug-tracking or forum > platform, I think the position "do everything there" would be a lot more > tenable. But a hidden bug system (which I still have no access to because > of my hemisphere) and a home-made forum system in 2017? You just have to > accept that that's not going to work for some people. For good reason. > > I've tried the Forums. While 4D Engineers participate there a little, I > heard nothing form the Product Team. Ever. And from Engineering, I mostly > heard or observed that posts were being put in the "wrong" forum, and that > any sort of design critique wasn't welcome. You can say that a feature is > not working correctly, but that a feature or feature set has a design flaw? > Not a good reception. At all. > > The question is, do you want to make 4D better? Do you want to make 4D more > reliable? Yes or no. Blowing off customer input = "no". Making it harder > for customers to provide input = "no". Not providing feedback on bug status > = "no." Not documenting the tools properly = "no". Calling bad design > "standard behavior" = "no." Telling people that its' down to us to track > down a bug that freezes the server and that 4D isn't actively investigating > it on their own? Yeah, that's most definitely "no." Giving people a hard > time for pointing out flaws in the *design* of features, also "no". > > Your business, your choice. -- Kirk Brooks San Francisco, CA ======================= *The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.* *- Edmund Burke* ********************************************************************** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:[email protected] **********************************************************************
