Re: [6tisch] Removing the 'e' in the charter

[Tom Phinney]

Pat, I agree with you completely. In my experience, many contributors to standards believe it to be their job to guide a reader into finding material in a normative reference by citing specific 'chapter and verse", or in this case detailed subclause numbering, when instead they should be indicating the topic area and specific information that is of importance. Standards that call out lots of specific subclauses by number are a nightmare to maintain, particularly if they reference more than one other normative standard in such detail, because they necessarily need to be updated whenever ANY of those cited-in-detail normative references are updated. If the writer of such clauses was told that they would be devoting one week per year for the rest of their lives to maintaining and updating all the detailed references that they included, it seems likely that they would find ways to word the text that did not so encumber their future. -Tom ===== On 2015.04.30 15:13, Pat Kinney wrote: Qin; You are correct that referring only to the standard does not allow you to refer to sub-clauses or pages and line numbers.   I would propose changing the current text: " A 10ms time slot length is the default value defined by [IEEE802154e]. Section 6.4.3.3.3 of [IEEE802154e] defines a default macTimeslotTemplate, i.e. the different duration within the slot. These values are summarized in the following table and MUST be used when utilizing the default time slot duration. In this case, the Timeslot IE only transports the macTimeslotTemplateId (0x00) as the timing values are well known. If a timeslot template other than the default is used, the EB MUST contain a complete TimeSlot IE indicating the timeslot duration and the corresponding timeslot timings, requiring 25 bytes. Note however that in case of discrepancy between the values in this document and [IEEE802154e], the IEEE standard specification has precedence.”  with the following text: “The timing parameters for the default macTimeslotTemplate (macTsTemplateID = 0) are summarized in the following table and MUST be used when utilizing the default time slot duration. For the case of the default macTimeslotTemplate, the Timeslot IE only transports the macTimeslotTemplateId (0x00) as the timing values are previously known. If a timeslot template other than the default is used, the EB MUST contain a complete TimeSlot IE indicating the timeslot duration and the corresponding timeslot timings. Note however that in case of discrepancy between the values in this document and IEEE 802.15.4, the IEEE standard has precedence. Pat Pat Kinney Kinney Consulting LLC IEEE 802.15 WG vice chair, TG chair ISA100.11a WG chair O: +1.847.960.3715 pat.kin...@kinneyconsultingllc.com On 30, Apr2015, at 15:34, Qin Wang <qinwang6...@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi all, I understand that reference IEEE 802.15.4 includes IEEE802.15.4e by definition. But I have a problem in writing 6TiSCH draft if we remove "e" in reference.   Here is an example. "A 10ms time slot length is the default value defined by  [IEEE802154e].  Section 6.4.3.3.3 of [IEEE802154e] defines a default  macTimeslotTemplate,...." is in the section 3.4 of minimal draft. Then, the question is how to point the exact place if we use IEEE 802.15.4 as reference. Thanks Qin   On Friday, May 1, 2015 12:55 AM, Pat Kinney <pat.kin...@kinneyconsultingllc.com> wrote: An amendment references (is based upon) the latest revision when it was approved, hence 802.15.4e is based upon (i.e. it references) 802.15.4-2011. Pat Pat Kinney Kinney Consulting LLC IEEE 802.15 WG vice chair, TG chair ISA100.11a WG chair O: +1.847.960.3715 pat.kin...@kinneyconsultingllc.com On 30, Apr2015, at 10:37, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthub...@cisco.com> wrote: Hello Michael For All I know 4e TSCH is only defined on 2011. There are known similar technologies running over 2006 but they are not 4e... The undated reference in an RFC to an IEEE spec applies to the present state at the date of the RFC and to all future versions unless the RFC is revised. This proved useful for Ethernet; too much maybe since we were fooled into extending IP over Ethernet to Wi-Fi... Cheers, Pascal > Le 30 avr. 2015 à 07:50, Michael Richardson <mcr+i...@sandelman.ca> a écrit : > > > Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthub...@cisco.com> wrote: >> Today, undated and without the 'e', IEEE802.15.4 means 2011 plus all >> the amendments. > > Given that we can't run on 802.15.4-2011, this is why I'm concerned about > referencing "802.15.4". > >> So, a reference to IEEE Std 802.3 (without year) today is identical to the >> 2012 dated reference, but when the current revision is approved (expected >> this year), a reference to the 2012 revision would not include the >> maintenance changes included in the current revision, nor any of the >> amendments likely to be approved soon after the revision is approved. > > How does an outsider know when the reference was made?  Is it by the date > of the document making the reference? > > If the IETF writes a document in 2014, but it doesn't get published in Jan. 2015, > what IEEE document would "802.15.4" reference? > > Robert suggests text like: > >> In development of this RFC, IEEE Std 802.99 documents considered included >> IEEE Std 802.99-2016 and P802.99/D8. > > and so if we can do this, then I'm happy. > > > > > -- > Michael Richardson <mcr+i...@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works > -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- > > > > _______________________________________________ > 6tisch mailing list > 6tisch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch _______________________________________________ 6tisch mailing list 6tisch@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch _______________________________________________ 6tisch mailing list 6tisch@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch _______________________________________________ 6tisch mailing list 6tisch@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch

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