I feel you are missing my entire argument. I'm not anti VOIP.
On 1/24/07, Brian Friday <[email protected]> wrote:
On Jan 24, 2007, at 11:03 AM, Chris Louden wrote: > On 1/24/07, Brian Friday <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Please do not continue to spread this nonsense. This is exactly the > > I did say this was just my 2 cents..... Yes you did, then you used your experience to imply that your knowledge was more than just opinion.
My experience is somewhat short in 9-1-1. I have spent the last 8 months as a QA/BETA tester for 9-1-1 CTI applications before they are released. The previous 18 months before that I provided technical support for these products.
>> your VoIP phone doesn't automagically shut off nor does your land >> line phone, heck often the same phone you used for your land line is >> in use for your VoIP service. >
Dude! Do this test below, this is my entire argument for keeping a land line in your house.
> Go ahead call 911 form a land line, when they answer just tell them > your doing an ALI test and they will tell you your address. > > Now do it with a cell/VOIP phone. How long did it take you to get > through? Did you have to go through an automated system? Were they > able to give you your address when you told them you were doing an ALI > test?
By VOIP I mean Vonage/Cox/Comcast/AT%T or similar service. Not some internal VOIP you have on your network that just connects to Centrex or POTS line when you need to make an outside call.
> > This is my whole argument against VOIP right now. I simply can't get > right through if i needed to in most areas.
By right through I mean as fast as possible. I mean when seconds matter and I need police/fire/ems as soon as possible. If i am having a severe asthma attack, heart attack, i just came home and someone shot me in my dark living room.... and i manage to get to my phone and call 911. I want that operator to have my address right there in the ALI display on their screen. I know their going to ask me to verify it as a point of procedure, but what if i can't speak? This is my problem with VOIP. I'm not saying it can't do this. I'm saying landlines provide ALI more frequently then a VOIP/Cell phone call does in my opinion. This is why I feel you still need a land line in your home.
911 has never been a service which has ever said they are capable of handling 100% of all incoming calls. That is their goal but they often do not have the resources to get anywhere close to that goal. Ever try to reach 911 during/after a earthquake? Land lines have exactly the same problem getting to 911 services as VoIP phones because they ultimately both go through exactly the same routing trees. If the 911 service is busy its busy. Thats why they have
No they do not always go through the same routing trees, the same CO, yes. Many places Cell/VOIP come in thorugh what is call 7 digit emergency lines, and not actual 911 Trunks. FYI many states have privacy laws that prevent ALI queries on any lines that are not a 911 Trunks.
information like this link here http://www.911dispatch.com/ 911/911tips.html
Correct, any given center can only handle as many 9-1-1 calls as they have 9-1-1 Trunks. If their are more calls then Operators on duty the calls will be queued. Or depending on the system configuration over flow will be routed to a backup center or worst case busy out. I'm not arguing this.
Also your arguing that a physical incapacity would make the land line "better" when in fact the land line in some locations rural mostly has the same issues. You have to give the operator your number, your address etc. That type of 911 service is what they call "basic" 911 service. Read up on this service here http://www.fcc.gov/911/basic/
I don't know how many rural areas don't still have access to ALI with 911. However I am sure it is considerably less then those that do not have ALI for Cell/VOIP. Some places only get the cell tower ALI and can't get the location of the actual cell on;y the general vicinity. Do you know what they do in some small towns where they don't get ALI on a 911 call and the caller can't give it. Cops/Firemen etc. drive around with their sirens on until the 911 operator heres it in the background over the phone. Then they know on doors till they find the right house. Pretty scary huh?
Again how exactly have you tested this? Have you actually had VoIP installed in your areas since the FCC mandated 911 compliance? While
I have friends with various VOIP service. I have used their phones to call 911. I have tried Vonage and AT&T but not Cox or Comcasts services as yet. Based on my experiences getting through to a 911 operator I have not switched my home phone over to one of these services yet. I have called 911 for real situations recently. One was a car accident the other a brush fire near my home. Cell was the only option at the time for both. Which means CHP receives the call. They receive these calls not on a 911 Trunk but what I'll call a 7 digit emergency number, no ALI on these lines. Which also means I have to press 1 if this is an emergency, and then also be placed on hold till an Operator is available. I would never want to rely on this for my family when time is of the issue. The fact is I would have to if i am away from my home and something happens. I have on occassion called 9-1-1 from home, I'd say I have done this 3 times in the past two and a half years. Most recently after my switch to FIOS. In all cases to just verify ALI. All three times I was please with the response.
I have no problem with your argument you need to direct people to do the research themselves or spend the time to ensure your knowledge even anecdotal is current. I do not expect it to be if your not working in the telecomm industry, and specifically dealing with VoIP deployments. VoIP has never been a "100%" perfect solution for any person and it is not something I would recommend to everyone. If I was asked I would point the person to the information they needed to make the best decision for themselves. >> If you have ever tried VoIP you know that they require you to tell >> them exactly where your phone is placed. It is for this reason that >> wireless VoIP phones are not readily available in the US even though >> Asia has them everywhere. >> > The last data I saw on Vonage which was quite a while ago was that > less then 30% of their subscribers had direct access to a 911 > operator. Meaning they had to go though an automated prompt system to > get someone one the line. Which can be quite difficult to do when you > are having a heart attack or shot. If you had looked at the link I attached you would have seen that Vonage has 83% of their network fully compliant. Your data is no longer correct and hasn't been been for a very long time in "internet" terms. Before you continue I recommend you actually read the services you are considering "bad", vonage has gotten a lot of
I'm not trying to say their bad. If i used the word bad i was in error. I'm saying that i want the fastest, best, available way to get the help I need when I need it.
bad press from the telecomm giants for offering services they themselves are starting to offer. Their website has a lot of useful information specifically I would look at http://vonage.com/ features.php?feature=911 and http://vonage.com/help.php? category=29&nav=2 > > Colleges/Universities can be a different issue all together, many > still have key based systems. All generally intercept 911 calls and > then route them to the police as needed. Most also use a small DB that > just list DNs x2222 is (BLDG 4, 2ND FL, Rm 202). Which at some level > is manually updated and prone to error. WRONG! If a college or University is using VoIP or land lines it can indeed be fined for not keeping its information up to date. There is no difference in issue, Colleges and Universities are not allowed to "avoid" compliance with 911 requirements. Everything is prone to
I didn't say avoid. I was trying to state more prone to human error, in my own opinion.
error thats why many Universities have been going to an automated system that depends on port locations, appropriate network documentation and actual user intervention to verify the placement of VoIP phones. These systems might be less or more complex then the same systems referenced in the Vonage links which users are required to visit if they are moving their phone. While these Colleges/Universities may route a call to their on campus security department that does not eliminate the need for the 911 information required by law. Some Universities route their 911 calls to their local security because those security officers are law enforcement. Others only route calls to their local security during business hours. Chris, I apologize if my tone is caustic but please do your research on this topic if your going to talk about it even if your offering your 2-cents. This is a very serious issue and is an issue where changes are occurring rapidly more importantly mistakes can very exceptionally costly.
Costly yeah, deadly is the word I would have used. VOIP is getting there and will be there one day very soon. Anyways this has gotten far to off topic for the list. Feel free to reply to me directly if you like. Chris
- Brian _______________________________________________ 909linux mailing list [email protected] http://909linux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/909linux
