Rich, There is one MSAA method, accLocation, and three IA2 methods,
IAText::characterExtents, IAImage::imageLocation,
IAImage::imageSize. All these are getters.
Are you asking if IAccessibleImage should include a means for
returning a series of points?
How would this information be used by AT?
A side note: IAccessibleImage::imageLocation provides for fetching
either screen or parent relative offsets. MSAA's accLocation only
provides screen relative offsets.
Thanks, Pete
On 6/28/2011 2:04 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
So, we are discussing making
canvas accessible. Currently accessible objects take bounding
rectangles yet drawing objects can be more complex. Should we
introduce a drawing path to the API vs doing a best fit to a
rectangle?
Rich
Rich Schwerdtfeger
CTO Accessibility Software Group
 Pete Brunet
---06/28/2011 01:57:10 PM---AT devs, do you use
IAccessibleEditableText? Is there a kind of AT that can't use
the GUI for clipbo
From: Pete Brunet
<[email protected]>
To:
Cc: IA2 List
<[email protected]>
Date: 06/28/2011 01:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next
changes to IAccessible2
Sent by: [email protected]
AT devs, do you use IAccessibleEditableText?
Is there a kind of AT that can't use the GUI for clipboard
operations?
The same question often comes up regarding IAccessibleAction,
i.e. why
have actions if the same thing can be done via the GUI. My
understanding is that this is for those who can't use the
mouse and
keyboard. Do ATs for those users not have the ability to use
GUI menus?
Pete
On 6/28/2011 2:29 AM, Malte Timmermann wrote:
> Actually, it's also not clear to me why the clipboard
stuff exists at all.
>
> Maybe it was introduced with JAA/ATK, because there is no
"standard
> platform mechanism" on all supported platforms?
>
> I don't know - how would an AT tell any application on
GNOME or Mac to
> copy/paste, w/o faking some key events?
>
> The clipboard API is incomplete anyway. For example, I
don't have an
> equivalent API for copy/paste on a drawing document or a
bitmap editor.
> Only for objects supporting accessible text.
>
> Malte.
>
> Carolyn MacLeod wrote, On 27.06.2011 21:06:
>> An excellent point, Peter.
>>
>> In fact, I just read Malte's discussion on the same
API, and something
>> he said - "If [the user] really is interested in
selecting a certain
>> format, he can use the dialog in the application." -
reminded me of our
>> initial reaction when we were asked to implement
>> IAccessibleEditableText::copyText, cutText, and
pasteText in our
>> StyledText control.... namely, "Why??".
>>
>> Why do AT need a separate way of doing something that
every editable
>> text control already provides by a multitude of
standard platform
>> mechanisms?
>>
>> I still don't have the answer. However, since we
implemented
>> IAccessibleEditableText in order to provide
insert/replace/delete and
>> allow setting of attributes, we then implemented
cut/copy/paste anyway,
>> but only because they were in the same interface.
>>
>> Our second question was "What are the offsets for?
Why not just use the
>> selection?". The answer to that was that since
IAccessibleText::copy
>> needed offsets because there might not be a
selection, someone decided
>> that IAccessibleEditableText cut/copy/paste needed
offsets, too, for
>> consistency. This was an unfortunate decision,
because it gives these
>> methods a very strange side effect: the server is
forced to change the
>> selection to match the offsets before doing the
clipboard operation. We
>> grudgingly implemented these methods, and hoped that
no AT would ever
>> send us any offsets other than those for the already
existing selection.
>> :)
>>
>> (Epilogue: I cannot find a definition of
IAccessibleText::copy anywhere,
>> so the original reason that there are offsets for the
clipboard methods
>> has been completely lost in the mists of time).
>>
>> Now, since multi-selection makes the strange
semantics even stranger, I
>> am happy to revert back to our initial impression
that
>> IAccessibleEditibleText[2] doesn't need clipboard
operations at all. :)
>>
>> Carolyn
>>
>>
>> From: Peter Korn <[email protected]>
>> To: Carolyn MacLeod/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA
>> Cc: Alexander Surkov
<[email protected]>,
>> [email protected],
IA2 List
>> <[email protected]>
>> Date: 27/06/2011 02:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to
IAccessible2
>>
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Carolyn, gang,
>>
>> Before we get too deep into (re-) designing this
API... Do we have a
>> clear set of use cases? What AT do we expect to call
this/these API
>> call(s), supporting which use cases?
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> On 6/27/2011 11:13 AM, Carolyn MacLeod wrote:
>>
>> Hi, all.
>>
>> Regarding
*IAccessibleEditableText2::pasteText(startOffset, endOffset,
>> mimeType)*:
>>
>> 1) If we are going to use "mime type" to specify the
clipboard format,
>> then I think we need an explicit mapping from mime
type to
>> platform-specific clipboard format so that AT and
server are both
>> speaking the same language. For example, something
like:
>> MIME type Windows GTK/ATK
>> text/plain CF_TEXT (predefined)
gdk_atom_intern("COMPOUND_TEXT")
>> gdk_atom_intern("UTF8_STRING")
>> gdk_atom_intern("STRING")
>> text/rtf CF_RTF = RegisterClipboardFormat("Rich Text
Format")
>> gdk_atom_intern("text/rtf")
>> gdk_atom_intern("TEXT/RTF")
>> gdk_atom_intern("application/rtf")
>> text/html CF_HTML = RegisterClipboardFormat("HTML
Format")
>> gdk_atom_intern("text/html")
>> gdk_atom_intern("TEXT/HTML")
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2) Do we allow only text/* MIME types? Or do we allow
all mime types?
>> For example, is *pasteText(10, 20, "image/jpeg")*
allowed? Probably
>> should be, given that most word processors can paste
an image (among
>> other things) at a specific location, but the name
pasteText is wrong
>> for that context (unless it means "paste the *into
*the text"...).
>>
>> For the curious, here is a typical list of text/*
mime types, taken from
>> Java AWT data transfer's "best text flavor" method:_
>>
__http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/awt/datatransfer/DataFlavor.html#selectBestTextFlavor(java.awt.datatransfer.DataFlavor_
>> <http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/awt/datatransfer/DataFlavor.html#selectBestTextFlavor%28java.awt.datatransfer.DataFlavor>[])
>> •"text/sgml"
>> •"text/xml"
>> •"text/html"
>> •"text/rtf"
>> •"text/enriched"
>> •"text/richtext"
>> •"text/uri-list"
>> •"text/tab-separated-values"
>> •"text/t140"
>> •"text/rfc822-headers"
>> •"text/parityfec"
>> •"text/directory"
>> •"text/css"
>> •"text/calendar"
>> •"application/x-java-serialized-object"
>> •"text/plain"
>> •"text/<other>"
>>
>> 3) We need to more fully specify: "If mime type is
missed then
>> application choose more appropriate one depending on
insertion context."
>> i.e. If mime_type is empty string or NULL? Also, if
mime_type is
>> unsupported by the server, I assume we would return
E_INVALIDARG and
>> paste nothing?
>>
>> 4) Paste gets a bit complicated in the context of
multiple selections,
>> so the following sentence may need revision:
>> "If both start and end offsets are equal to
IA2_TEXT_OFFSET_SELECTION
>> (value -3) then they point to start and end offset of
active selection
>> (i.e. start or end of selection has a caret)."
>>
>> If we truly mean that pasteText only pastes onto the
selection that has
>> the caret, then perhaps we can spec it as:*
>> pasteText(IA2_TEXT_OFFSET_CARET,
IA2_TEXT_OFFSET_SELECTION, mime_type)*
>> rather than:*
>> pasteText(IA2_TEXT_OFFSET_SELECTION,
IA2_TEXT_OFFSET_SELECTION, mime_type)*
>> This would make it clearer that it is the selection
with the caret that
>> will be operated on.
>>
>> However, it probably makes more sense to spec that
the paste should
>> happen on all selections. Consider the following
semantics of clipboard
>> operations on multiple selections in MS Word (which
is not the defining
>> app for multiple selection clipboard operations,
however their semantics
>> mostly make sense... and when I tried FF, I got odd
behavior for
>> everything except Copy).
>>
>> If we have this line of text:
>> One fish two fish red fish blue fish
>> Now select One two red blue by double-clicking while
holding down Ctrl
>> (I don't know how to do this with only the keyboard),
then Copy, and the
>> clipboard contains:
>> One
>> two
>> red
>> blue
>> (I am not sure why line breaks are inserted between
words... that is a
>> bit odd. Multi-select copy in FF concatenates the
words without line
>> breaks).
>>
>> Start again with the original text, select One two
red blue as before,
>> and Cut, and we are left with:
>> fish fish fish fish
>> The clipboard contains the same data as for Copy.
>>
>> Start again with the original text, select One two
red blue, and Paste
>> "the ", and we get:
>> the fish the fish the fish the fish
>>
>> Finally, start again with the original text, select
One two red blue,
>> and type "green", and we have:
>> One fish two fish red fish green fish
>>
>> In other words, clipboard commands operate on all
selections, but insert
>> (typing) only operates on the selection that contains
the caret.
>>
>> What I am getting at by all of this is that maybe
pasteText should not
>> have any offset parameters at all, because
startOffset and endOffset are
>> inadequate to define multiple selections).
>> Perhaps pasteText should simply be specified to
always operate on the
>> selection, whatever that may be.
>>
>> And if that is the case, then it only makes sense to
remove the
>> parameters from copyText and cutText as well, for the
same reason.
>>
>> Carolyn
>>
>>
>> From: Alexander Surkov
_<[email protected]>_
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>> To: Brian Cragun _<[email protected]>_ <mailto:[email protected]>
>> Cc:
[email protected]_
>> <mailto:[email protected]>, IA2 List
>> _<[email protected]>_
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>> Date: 08/06/2011 06:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to
IAccessible2
>> Sent by:
[email protected]_
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>
>>
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi, Brian.
>>
>> I added this suggestion to wiki -_
>>
__https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/IA2_1.3#IAccessibleEditableText2_interface_.
>>
>> Thank you.
>> Alex.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 10:51 PM, Brian Cragun
_<[email protected]>_
>> <mailto:[email protected]>wrote:
>>> I propose we add a way for IA2 Paste Text to
provide both a Start and
>> an End
>>> Offset parameter. Also to provide an Attributes
parameter.
>>> Copy-with-parameters should be implemented as an
additional method in
>>> IAccessibleText.
>>>
>>> See previous exchanges on this topic to the list:
>>>
>>
_https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2010-September/001219.html_
>>
_https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2010-October/001223.html_
>>> Previously this was not changed because it
required a new interface.
>> Now we
>>> are making new interfaces. Good time to add.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> Brian Cragun
>>> IBM AbilityLab Consultant
>>> Human Ability & Accessibility Center
>>> _www.ibm.com/able_& w3.ibm.com/able
>>> W:(720)-663-2801 H:(507)288-2437
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Pete Brunet _<[email protected]>_
<mailto:[email protected]>
>>> To: IA2 List
_<[email protected]>_
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>> Date: 06/06/2011 11:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to
IAccessible2
>>> Sent by:
[email protected]_
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all, Please take a look at this and provide
your feedback:
>>>
>>> _https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/IA2_1.3_
>>>
>>> Thanks, Pete
>>> --
>>> Pete Brunet
>>>
>>> a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and
Development
>>> (512) 238-6967 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
>>> Skype: pete.brunet
>>> IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), [email protected]_
>> <mailto:[email protected]>(MSN)
>>> _http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/_
>>> Ionosphere: WS4G
>>>
>>> On 3/11/2011 11:10 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
>>> Hi, Jamie. I missed Mick suggestion on the list.
It's sounds
>> reasonable and
>>> I agree we should try it before getting new API
for this since the
>> issue is
>>> mostly about events.
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>> Alex.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 11:43 AM, James Teh
_<[email protected]>_
>> <mailto:[email protected]>wrote:
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> Nice work; good to get the discussion going. :)
>>>
>>> I still don't see a need for this registry API.
Why not just use
>>> IsWinEventHookInstalled(), as Mick suggested on
the IA2 list?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Jamie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/03/2011 3:48 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> I gathered ideas into one doc -
>>> _https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/IA2_1.3_.
Please give feedback
>>> here and feel free to edit the wiki.
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>> Alex.
>>>
>>> --
>>> James Teh
>>> Vice President, Developer
>>> NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390
>>> Email: [email protected]_ <mailto:[email protected]>
>>> Web site: _http://www.nvaccess.org/_
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
>>> [email protected]_
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>
_https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2_
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
>>> [email protected]_
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>
_https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2_
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Accessibility-ia2 mailing list_
>> [email protected]_
>> <mailto:[email protected]>_
>>
__https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2_
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
>> [email protected]_
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>
_https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2_
>>
>>
>> -- _
>> _Oracle <http://www.oracle.com/>
>> Peter Korn | Accessibility Principal
>> Phone: _+1 650 5069522_
<tel:+1%20650%205069522>
>> 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94065_
>> _Green Oracle <http://www.oracle.com/commitment>Oracle is committed to
>> developing practices and products that help protect
the environment
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> [email protected]
>> https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
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