On 11/2/14, sanjay <[email protected]> wrote:
> When I joined school i.e In early 80's this concept of mainstream education
>
> was alien to me.
I too am trying to imagine the condition in those days :)
I know lot of progress has been made in these thre
> decades.  I already mentioned the pathetic conditions of our school days and
>
> you are questioning me.  AS you are too young, perhaps you know nothing
> about the educational facilities which we had in those  days.
I am asking, out of curiosity, convince me if you wish to.

>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bhavya shah" <[email protected]>
> To: "AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
> concerningthe disabled." <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2014 12:26 PM
> Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AI] Regarding Inclusive Education and Special School.
>
>
>> On 11/1/14, sanjay <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> First of all, I don't believe that blind people who study in integrated
>>> schools will  possess extraordinary skils of mingling with sighted folks.
>>>
>>> I
>>>
>>> am also a product of special school. Forget about other books, we were
>>> not
>>> even provided sylabus books properly. We were introduced to English
>>> alphabets in 5th Std. Blaming my Kannada  medium school for not teaching
>>> English is unfair on my part.  This was the situation in 1980's.    In
>>> my
>>> neighbourhood, I had many sighted friends and I was even atending a
>>> tuition
>>>
>>> classss with my sighted peers during weekends.
>> Yes, so instead of simply attending mainstream tuitions, why not
>> completely attend a mainstream school?
>>> AT certain point of time we have to quit our native place for
>>> job/training
>>> purposes.  When you go to new place, whether you are a sighted or blind
>>> we
>>> all have to face initial ods.
>>> I have seen many blind folks who  have no  business with any sighted
>>> person
>>>
>>> but are living happily without mourning for sighted person(s)
>>> assistance/friendship.
>> Can a blind person be equally productive without knowing sighted
>> people in comparison to when they know and have lots of experience
>> with sighted people?
>> Perhaps, it is their 100% interdependent nature
>>> which gave them this level of joy and confidence.  I said interdependent
>>> nature because 100% independence is a myth.
>> It is because of such people,
>>>
>>> many inventions and innovations of products have been taking place
>>> relentlessly.
>> I would say that exactly the opposite kind of people would be
>> responsible for inventions and innovations. Anyways, could you give
>> some real life examples to prove this statement of yours?
>>>
>>> Today's relations are based on  common interest and  reciprocity.
>>> Whether
>>> you are sighted or blind, as long as you have something to offer or
>>> share,
>>> you can always have good friends and relatives.  As we mature from
>>> childhood
>>>
>>> to adulthood, the dynamics of relations too change.
>>> I have also seen blind people who could not have been educated well
>>> without
>>>
>>> special schools.
>> If special schools become extinct, then blind children will have to
>> compulsorily attend mainstream schools, and then they will be able to
>> make an informed decision, whether mainstream schooling is better, or
>> special schooling.
>>> I do support the view that   primary education should be given in
>>> special
>>> schools. Then let the children and parents decide what suits them best.
>> Ok, for the present scenario yes, but if situations improve, for all
>> blind children all across the country, regardless of their location or
>> gender, mainstream schooling would be more suitable.
>>> Please don't go by the myth that  integrated schools  are the only way
>>> to
>>> mainstream disabled people in the normal society.  Such concepts hold
>>> little
>>>
>>> value in highly individualised societies of today;  and,  this is the
>>> false
>>>
>>> propaganda by some vested interests.
>>>
>> Ok, mainstream schooling is not the 'only' way to mainstream people,
>> but, it is a much more efficient way of mainstreaming people in the
>> society.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Amiyo Biswas" <[email protected]>
>>> To: "AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and
>>> issuesconcerning
>>> thedisabled." <[email protected]>
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2014 8:46 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Regarding Inclusive Education and Special School.
>>>
>>>
>>>>I am not against inclusive education for those who can manage it,
>>>>particularly with the support of parents. The old integrated education
>>>>programme was the best choice perhaps. I want that the special schools
>>>>should be developed with good teachers and resources. In West Bengal
>>>>special schools are under the ministry of mass education whose primary
>>>>responsibility is to promote mass literacy. The teachers are paid less
>>>>than
>>>>
>>>>the teachers at normal schools. The most pathetic situation is that the
>>>>special educators are paid hardly Rs. 8,000 or something like that when
>>>>they have to bear greater responsibility than regular teachers.
>>>>
>>>> Parents want to send their children to normal schools because they gain
>>>> financially from it for the incentive. They refuse to talk to the
>>>> representatives of the special schools because of this incentive.
>>>> Organisations should take up the issue as they did for the copyright
>>>> act
>>>> or the rpd bill.
>>>>
>>>> With best regards,
>>>> Amiyo Biswas
>>>> Cell: +91-9433464329
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Vidhya Y" <[email protected]>
>>>> To: "AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>>> concerningthe disabled." <[email protected]>
>>>> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 2:24 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Regarding Inclusive Education and Special School.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I still believe that for primary level atleast till 5th grade, Special
>>>>> school helps for all
>>>>> Blind children.
>>>>> I would like to share why I think so,
>>>>> till 7th grade I studied in a blind school (in a hostel).
>>>>> it was very difficult for my parents to leave me their but that was
>>>>> the only alternative.
>>>>> I know that the quality of education is not good at the blind schools
>>>>> because I had to learn all concepts like algebra and geometry and
>>>>> also many concepts in science in the integrated school for my 8th
>>>>> grade from scratch(as my friends had already learnt it before 7th
>>>>> grade)
>>>>> and they had not taught these concepts in blind school.
>>>>> for a year or so it was very difficult and later I managed it very
>>>>> well.
>>>>> I used to stay in a village and there are no good schools near buy.
>>>>> my parents have given me all the facilities but english is not what
>>>>> they have studied so converting books would not be possible at any
>>>>> cost.
>>>>> as a girl, there is a question of sending me to any institute to take
>>>>> training in computer math etc on my own and the people from  the
>>>>> institute  would not come because I stay too far from  city.
>>>>> and these institutes are so far from the village.
>>>>> in the village where all students in general are not getting proper
>>>>> education in computer, english, what about the blind children
>>>>> especially at the primary level?
>>>>> I studied in integrated school from 8th grade because I could manage
>>>>> on my own  at that level with a little help.
>>>>> but how could I do that from primary level?
>>>>> I have very supportive family and tutors so I have managed to study
>>>>> math and programming even in the degree level and now I am working as
>>>>> research assistant (thinking of doing PHD in computer science ).
>>>>> and there are other blind children especially girls who are  not even
>>>>> cared by their families(I am telling this because I know many of
>>>>> them),
>>>>> same flexibility in mingling with other children and also in mobility
>>>>> cannot be expected like boys for girls as all of you know that no
>>>>> place is safe.
>>>>> and if their are no special schools too, how to educate blind girls
>>>>> when  female education in general is too bad in our country?
>>>>> atleast through special schools people will learn few basic
>>>>> educational skills and survival skills right?
>>>>> or else  how to promote literacy among all blind girls?
>>>>> this is my personal opineon,
>>>>> I know  that  there are many exceptional cases with well educational
>>>>> and financially stable parents who can take care of blind children.
>>>>> so please don't take this opinion too seriously.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/30/14, Parakh Rajesh <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> the real essence of inclusive education is integration of differently
>>>>>> abled
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to main stream where the notions and hesitance of the sited or normal
>>>>>> society is reduced to a level where inclusion of these children
>>>>>> becomes
>>>>>> smoother. and moreover the feeling of isolation amongst the
>>>>>> differently
>>>>>> abled population may fade away during the course of time which in
>>>>>> turn
>>>>>> increases their confidence level. coming to resources and facilities
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> rural areas or lesser priviliged society the issues are real complex
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> country like ours. here stronger, pragmatic laws and stiff
>>>>>> accountability
>>>>>> may help in long term perspective.
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>> rajesh parakh
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Bhavya shah" <[email protected]>
>>>>>> To: "AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>>>>> concerningthe disabled." <[email protected]>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 4:51 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Regarding Inclusive Education and Special School.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> 'great bhavya, in todays context the need is to use technology in
>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>> possible ways. further there is a need to create strong laws for
>>>>>>> normal schools that they do not refuse any differently abled child
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> admission and provide atleast minimum standard of technology for the
>>>>>>> children to achieve education. i think strong rules will surely help
>>>>>>> children from rural areas also.'
>>>>>>> I think there is a law that mainstream schools cannot refuse to give
>>>>>>> admission to a visually impaired child, I might be wrong here. This
>>>>>>> wasn't in my case, because I have been studying in my school from
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> I was completely sighted to now, where I am completely blind.
>>>>>>> In a poor country as India, perhaps the school may not give
>>>>>>> technological solutions to the children, but certainly, they should
>>>>>>> allow the use of laptops and other such solutions. I am not sure
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> rural areas, I have seen that some NGOs with lots and lots of
>>>>>>> teachers, have failed to spread awareness, and sadly parents of
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> blind children aske me whether I am able to use a computer or not,
>>>>>>> whether I will drop maths or not, because in those NGOs (I won't
>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>> their names) only and only Braille is taught, and just nothing else.
>>>>>>> If NGOs themselves become more aware, then perhaps we can talk about
>>>>>>> the adoption of inclusive education in rural areas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/30/14, Ketan Kothari <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dear Bhavya,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am a student from a "special school".  I have also been a student
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> a regular "not normal" school but I personally feel that education
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> important to begin with and then the philosophical debate of
>>>>>>>> "special"
>>>>>>>> versus "inclusive" for both have their advantages and
>>>>>>>> disadvantages.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In a case as yours, at least you have parents who have computer at
>>>>>>>> home.  How many blind people or their parents in the country have
>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>> What about regional languages?  And yes, the biggest asset that you
>>>>>>>> have is your mother who is painstakingly doing the conversion etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not advocating special school but I am of the opinion that a
>>>>>>>> child must be educated in the best scenario that helps him.  I have
>>>>>>>> been to the villages where both parents have to go to NREGS work
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> the child goes to a regular school with little or no attention.
>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>> certainly hampers his education and the learning outcomes will
>>>>>>>> definitely suffer.  In the best available circumstances, children
>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>> be in an inclusive environment but e-text can never replace Braille
>>>>>>>> till we have mobile sets that are easily accessible, fast to
>>>>>>>> operate
>>>>>>>> and can maintain privacy (which present sets do not allow I am
>>>>>>>> afraid), and yes, Braille is not a language but a script.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Having said all this, I really admire your courage and wisdom at
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> age and for this I would certainly salute your parents.  Their
>>>>>>>> perseverance is what led you where you are.  I am sure you will go
>>>>>>>> miles in the future.  Wish you best of luck, lad and may you climb
>>>>>>>> heights unthinkable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With best wishes,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ketan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/30/14, Amiyo Biswas <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Dear Friends,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Recently I met some of my teacher friends at a meeting of Blind
>>>>>>>>> Persons'
>>>>>>>>> Association. We were sharing our experiences in our respective
>>>>>>>>> fields.
>>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>>> were all surprised to learn that special schools are not getting
>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>> after inclusive education was introduced. There are hardly a
>>>>>>>>> handful
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> special schools for us. If these schools with a very low roll
>>>>>>>>> strength
>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>> not get sufficient students, what will be the lot of the next
>>>>>>>>> generation
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> visually impaired students?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Inclusive Education programme is in effect for some years. We
>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>> review
>>>>>>>>> the situation now. As a project it sounds very good. Disabled
>>>>>>>>> children
>>>>>>>>> read
>>>>>>>>> at normal schools and ideally it helps mainstreaming them into the
>>>>>>>>> society.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A cursory glance at a classroom will reveal the real situation. In
>>>>>>>>> West
>>>>>>>>> Bengal, where I live in, the normal student-teacher ratio is about
>>>>>>>>> 1-100
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> many cases. It is even worse at the primary schools. Moreover, the
>>>>>>>>> primary
>>>>>>>>> school teachers have to perform various duties during census and
>>>>>>>>> election.
>>>>>>>>> Besides, they have their daily chore of midday meal. Many of these
>>>>>>>>> schools
>>>>>>>>> do not have the necessary infrastructure for children with special
>>>>>>>>> needs.
>>>>>>>>> Accessible toilets are dreams when the normal children do not get
>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>> facilities in some cases.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are Special Educators who are supposed to assist the
>>>>>>>>> children
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> special needs. A Special Educator has to cover about 30 schools in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> month.
>>>>>>>>> Is it possible for him or her to guide a disabled child by meeting
>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>> in a month? We cannot expect him that he will be efficient in
>>>>>>>>> Braille,
>>>>>>>>> sign
>>>>>>>>> language and so on. They are paid very low (hardly Rs. 8,000 per
>>>>>>>>> month)
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> appointed on a contract basis. They tend to quit their jobs
>>>>>>>>> whenever
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> is an opportunity. Why should well-educated young people stick to
>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> job
>>>>>>>>> for so humble a salary?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I shall not say that nothing good has come of it. Many disabled
>>>>>>>>> children
>>>>>>>>> have been enrolled into normal schools or Sarba Shiksha Abhijan.
>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>> normal
>>>>>>>>> schools there is no pass or fail. So visually challenged children
>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>> automatic promotion up to class VIII without ever learning
>>>>>>>>> Braille.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> heard of a mentally retarded child who goes to the exam and his
>>>>>>>>> invigilator
>>>>>>>>> writes his name, roll etc. on his answer paper and he gets
>>>>>>>>> promoted.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is yet another benefit. Parents of the disabled children
>>>>>>>>> gain
>>>>>>>>> financially from the scheme, around Rs. 4,500. The Special
>>>>>>>>> Educators
>>>>>>>>> earn
>>>>>>>>> their living, whatever it is, from this scheme. But this is all at
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> cost
>>>>>>>>> of education. When children with special needs require special
>>>>>>>>> training,
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> are thrusting them into an atmosphere where they feel lonely and
>>>>>>>>> isolated.
>>>>>>>>> They memorise some rhymes and stories, but they seldom learn
>>>>>>>>> arithmetic.
>>>>>>>>> As
>>>>>>>>> a result they grow up with an inferiority complex.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A severe consequence of the scheme is that since the parents earn
>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>> from this scheme, they do not send their children to special
>>>>>>>>> schools.
>>>>>>>>> Most
>>>>>>>>> of the special schools cannot enrol their full strength.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I do not want to give up with Inclusive Education immediately. But
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>> the following to make it more effective:
>>>>>>>>> 1. There should be some financial incentive for the parents who
>>>>>>>>> send
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> children to special schools
>>>>>>>>> 2. The block-level social welfare officer should try to find a
>>>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>>>> school for a child with special needs and when no such facility is
>>>>>>>>> available, only then the child should be enrolled in Inclusive
>>>>>>>>> Education.
>>>>>>>>> 3. Special Educators should be paid in line with the regular
>>>>>>>>> teachers
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> all facilities.
>>>>>>>>> 4. Braille books, Braille writing frames, Taylor frames and other
>>>>>>>>> similar
>>>>>>>>> items used by children with special needs should be available at
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> block
>>>>>>>>> level.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I shall request all senior members to do something about it. We
>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>> write
>>>>>>>>> to the ministers of Social Justice and Empowerment, Education and
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> PM
>>>>>>>>> also. Activists like Mr. Kaul, Mr. Rumta or Dipendra should take
>>>>>>>>> initiative
>>>>>>>>> with our full support for any action.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With best Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Amiyo Biswas
>>>>>>>>> Cell: +91-9433464329
>>>>>>>>> Clean India Campaign: Let us also chip in!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing
>>>>>>>>> accessibility
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> of
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Ketan Kothari
>>>>>>>> Phone: [r] 24223281,
>>>>>>>> Cell: 9987550614
>>>>>>>> MSN ID: [email protected]
>>>>>>>> Skype ID: Ketan3333
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Clean India Campaign: Let us also chip in!
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> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>

Clean India Campaign: Let us also chip in!



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