> On Dec 15, 2015, at 9:48 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Noah Kantrowitz <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On Dec 15, 2015, at 7:17 AM, Michael Wyraz <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Stephen,
> >> Yes, I understand that and didn't actually refer to LE at all in my mail.
> > I'm sorry if I missunderstood you with that.
> >
> >> Basically, IMO only after we first get a "now" that works
> > We have a working HTTP-01 spec, implementation and CA. What's missing
> > for "a 'now' that works"?
> >
> >> Personally the optional thing in which I'm much more interested is a
> >> simple put-challenge-in-DNS one where the CA pays attention to DNSSEC,
> >> since that's the use-case I have and that would provide some better
> >> assurance to the certs acquired via acme. I can see that there might
> >> also be value for some (other) folks in SRV if it means no need to
> >> dynamically change DNS. But, if someone is saying "we must all do
> >> these more complex things for security reasons" then they are, in this
> >> context, wrong. And my mail was reacting to just such a statement.
> > Why not just placing a static public key to DNS that is allowed to sign
> > ACME requests for this domain? Simple, no need for dynamic updates (yes,
> > it's standardized for years but AFAIK not seen very often in real world
> > scenarios).
> 
> Anything that makes deployment _harder_ than the current LE client is a move 
> in the wrong direction. UX matters, with security more than just about 
> anything else. Unless you can propose a user flow to go with this change, no 
> amount of hypothetical correctness is worth having a tool no one will use.
> 
> Harder for whom?
> 
> The current scheme isn't going to work for any geolocation based systems and 
> is a terrible fit for enterprise.

I think this is a bit of a red herring on a few fronts. You can use http-01 or 
similar strategies on a widely-replicated system, it is just annoying because 
you need to push the challenge response file to a bunch of places. If the 
geo-distributed piece is a CDN, the system is already designed to smash caches 
effectively so that is handled. Still, that is gross and a lot of work, but 
fortunately there is already a DNS challenge in the works that will help for 
some cases. It requires centralized command and control systems to use 
effectively, but that matches the structure of a lot of these big, distributed 
setups. The case we haven't covered is where you have a complex distributed 
setup but want to run the challenge on the edges. I question how many people 
want to do that but I agree it is non-zero and an http-srv-01 challenge type 
would help cover that (or fold it in to http-02 as an optional thing). The 
objection from myself and some others is the suggestion that we mandate DNS 
changes to use http-01 or tls-sni-01 because of the risk of a rogue HTTP server 
validating certs unexpectedly. Making that level of interaction with DNS 
required is a major UX change and will drastically reduce the number of people 
that will use LE and similar services.

--Noah

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