You never heard of Avenade? You need to get out a bit more, eh? <G> I will ask though: if Avenade might exist so that more complicated systems can be implemented without Microsoft having to do the work themselves, does that mean they're different than other partners? If so, why and how Ken? I have to admit I've met some really bright folks from MCS, Avendade, Accenture, IBM, Compucom, CSC, HP and so on. The individual was far more important to the conversation than the company. I've also met some that I wouldn't trust to tie my velcro shoes for what it's worth.
My guess is that they aren't any different than other partners, nor MCS as a whole organization when it comes to ability. When it comes to expectations, MCS has everyone beat. When it comes to talking to the product teams, I suspect that's a case by case basis and has more to do with the individual than it does with the company name. Been my experience anyway. I'm curious now: were you just pointing out that one was missed or that Avenade can do the complicated systems that MCS doesn't have staff to handle? Al -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 9:37 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) Oh wow, I never heard of them and they are the "leading global technology integrator"... -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 8:54 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:ActiveDir- : [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe : Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) : : I think as MS gets more and more complicated products : deeper in the field (SMS, MIIS, MOM, Active Directory, : ADFS, SUA, etc) they will have not much choice but to offer : more and better consulting to get it all configured : and running properly together. Not doing so means that : people will set it up and often it will be set up poorly : or outright wrong which makes MS look bad. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Perhaps this one of the reasons Avanade [1] exists... Cheers Ken [1] www.avanade.com -- www.adOpenStatic.com/cs/blogs/ken/ : Services is a great way to make money if you do a good job. If you do a : poor : job, it is a great way to piss customers off and lose money and people due : to issues and stress. : : : : -----Original Message----- : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Mulnick : Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 4:08 PM : To: [email protected] : Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) : : ProServices at Microsoft is all about radical turns. Trust me :) : : You're concept of partners having more/less in-depth experience than : Microsoft is intriguing. I suppose that indicates that the Microsoft : consultants have a corporate sanctioned line back to the development team : (as opposed to making those relationships as best they can). Interesting : concept; I hope you're right. : : : SteveB absolutely has been consistent in saying that services (not just : MCS : anymore) is there as a value add. They're a software company first and : foremost. One of the great things about working there as a consultant, : I'm : sure. : : Getting partners to step up has more than the value of not having to : maintain headcount if you think about it. It has benefits that reach much : deeper than that. (I'm just pointing out the obvious). : : "If they are ramping up it's because they see a rise in the need of talent : in MCS at present, and demand from customers for more flesh in the game." : Hmmm.... : : : : : -----Original Message----- : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kingslan, Rick T. : Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 3:36 PM : To: [email protected] : Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) : : All (not just Al), : : Microsoft has never really intended to be a true player in the Services : market - unless they are taking a radical turn in the past few months. : : They see services as a necessary tool for customers who require Microsoft : to : be involved in installs and the like. If it wasn't for some very major : players (Boeing, Ford, GE, etc... I suspect) Microsoft would not have : provided consulting at all. : : Ballmer sees this end of the market as an 'at-best' break even game. He : would much prefer to see the Partners step up to the plate, but there are : a : whole other set of problems with that, only a couple being depth of : experience and real commitment to the Microsoft Corporate vision, rather : than their own interests. : : Funny how that works. : : If they are ramping up it's because they see a rise in the need of talent : in : MCS at present, and demand from customers for more flesh in the game. : : joe, you might be talking to other folks than I am (I suspect that I have : more recent contact with what's going on in recruiting with MCS than you : do : right now.... ;o) but I don't get the impression that it's quite in the : upper thousands, but there is a big push on to hire a bunch by fiscal : year-end (June 30). : : -rtk : : > -----Original Message----- : > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:ActiveDir- : > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Mulnick : > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 1:44 PM : > To: [email protected] : > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All - OT (and drifting further away) : > : > I, more than many, would really appreciate Microsoft building up its : > consulting ranks/headcount ;) : > : > Until then, I don't think they can be considered as a serious player : > in the consulting arena. I think they will never (by virtue of their : > culture) be able to be a consulting organization that deals with end : > to end consulting; they can't deal with hardware without really making : > other vendors/partners irate for example. Same goes for software that : > Microsoft doesn't make, networking equipment/OS, etc. : > : > Compuware? I suppose they could since they claim to deal with 90% of : > the fortunate 100. : > : > Question to ask is how they get on the top 5 list. Is it by revenue? : > Profits? Headcount? Did they make the list themselves? ?? : > : > : > : > : > : > : > -----Original Message----- : > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:ActiveDir- : > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe : > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 1:44 PM : > To: [email protected] : > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All : > : > I keep hearing rumours that MS is really going to be kicking its : > presence up in consulting and services by adding thousands (or tens of : > thousands) of analysts for it. : > : > Oh and I thought of another possible one though I don't know how big : > they are anymore... Compuware. : > : > : > : > -----Original Message----- : > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Mulnick : > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 1:01 PM : > To: [email protected] : > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] All : > : > Accenture? Compucom? CSC? : > : > I don't think MS would rank that high in the consulting arena. List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/
