Jonathan, I've been around a while too and must underscore the obvious: "the customers [you] encounter" clearly doesn't cover most businesses, or even most big businesses, and chances are that you encounter the ones you know because you have knowledge specific to their legacy Unix systems.
Almost without exception the customers *I* encounter are all- or nearly-all-Microsoft, and those customers include large pharmaceutical companies (including several of the biggest in the world), municipal, provincial and federal governments in Canada, and several big engineering firms (including one of the largest in North America.) Your assertion also ignores other companies that MS often mentions as its poster children who run all or most of their mission-critical business on MS solutions. And MS itself "eats its own dog food" as it likes to boast. Clearly, your view is limited. The "KO" I mentioned was not a suggestion that .NET was now going to quickly knock out existing solutions, of course not! By "KO" I meant the knock-out punch which this test (if reliable) delivers in the marketing wars between Sun and MS. Sun built Pet Shop, MS built their way-faster .NET version, Sun and its groupies said, "No fair, Pet Shop was never optimized!" and now one of Sun's adherents has optimized it and shown that .NET is still up to twice as fast and twice as scalable. In the evolution of systems shops (you and I agree on that) everywhere, this information will weigh heavily, as will higher TPS, lower costs per transaction, flatter entry ramp, faster/less costly development, etc., and in many of them will steer the evolution towards .NET. In those where it doesn't... well I do have experience as an evangelist for MS solutions in big-iron shops, and in that admittedly limited experience the big impediment to the change I was promoting wasn't usually performance numbers or solution cost or even training cost, it was a group of techs and tech managers who knew Unix and didn't know MS protecting their worlds. Two cents from another quarter. -----Original Message----- From: jcaffee [mailto:jcaffee@;erols.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 12:50 PM To: ActiveServerPages Subject: RE: J2EE vs .NET Sheesh guys...are you new to this game? Without exception, the customers I encounter are doing J2EE for webservices and .NET for the "Application" and "Presentation" layers for enterprise applications. These are companies that have HUGE investments in UNIX enterprise servers (WebLogic, WebSphere, etc) and want some of the convenience that .NET provides to data presentation, re-use of their OO developers (Good thing...means they aren't running offshore for their dev needs) and easy implementation of webservices. I am speaking in the billions of records affected for a simple reporting query and in the multi-millions of records for update/insert/create query operations. Customer perception, right or wrong, is...UNIX = clusterable, scalable, reliable...Windows = not. Give .NET another six-months in production with high-capacity, mission-critical enterprise apps (specifically in finance and manufacturing), and then this benchmark will have value. Otherwise, no matter how many esoteric, theoretical, optimal benchmarks you provide, you will be shouting to deaf ears at the CIO, COT, and Architect levels. There are no "KO" scenarios in tech any longer...us CTO/Architects just don't do that any more...and even the MBMs (Manage-by-magazine) types who hold the purse strings have backed way, way off from the "Must have" technology pushes from four years ago...tech is a much different game these days, don't look for rapid, revolutionary change, but easy, calm evolution. Cheers, Jonathan C. Caffee Caffee Consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: Chris [mailto:15seconds@;dracoassociates.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 11:56 AM To: ActiveServerPages Subject: RE: J2EE vs .NET Thanks Daniel, this is powerful stuff <SNIP> --- You are currently subscribed to activeserverpages as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%% --- You are currently subscribed to activeserverpages as: [email protected] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
