Betsy Waliszewski writes:
> Thanks for finding out this information, Adam--this is really a cool story!
> This may appear in the next success story.
You need to read the followup, first. The reason this story isn't
bigger news is that it's only part of the truth. This message
from Rich Morin tells more ....
The short version is that Perl was never supposed to be an acceptable
language to use.
> Nat-
>
> I followed up on the programming contest story, getting a very detailed
> response from Eric Guenterberg ("CSUA Officer at large"). Here is his
> answer, prefaced by his permission for me to forward it to you, etc.
>
> -Rich
>
> =====
>
> On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Rich Morin wrote:
>
> > Thank you for the detailed and responsive reply. Although it isn't as
> > much fun as the story on www.perl.org, it is quite a bit more reasonable-
> > sounding. I would like to know whether I may forward your reply to the
> > webmaster of www.perl.org, and whether he is free to publish it. There
> > is no guarantee, of course, that he will want to do so, but just in
> >case...
>
> That would be great! Thanks,
>
> --Eric Guenterberg
> CSUA Officer at large
>
> =====
>
> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:54:52 -0800 (PST)
> From: Eric Guenterberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Rich Morin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [officers] So, what's the story?
>
> On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Rich Morin wrote:
>
> > * List: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > The page http://www.perl.org/advocacy/chiem.html (quoted below) says that
> > you have banned the Perl language from your programming competition.
> >
> > Is this the case? Would you care to tell me the "official story"? (This
> > sounds like wonderful column fodder! :-) A few related questions might
> > be in order, as:
> >
> > * Is the story below largely correct?
> > * What is the exact charter for the contest?
> > * Is Perl taught in any courses at UCLA? If so, which?
> > * Have any other languages been banned from the contest?
> > * On what grounds was Perl banned?
>
>
> Rich:
> Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. The reason for the delay
> I have been very carefully checking all information to make sure it is
> as accurate as possible.
>
> SYNOPSIS
> + The contest is a local version of, and used to prepare for the ACM
> contest. The charter for this is at:
> <http://acm.baylor.edu/acmicpc/Info/AboutRegionals.html>
>
> + Only C, C++, and Pascal are allowed for the contest. This is to
> bring our local contest in conformance with the regional
> competition, and to help us better prepare for them.
>
> + Perl and the contest
> - Perl was not banned because of the outcome of the contest
> - Perl was never *meant* to be allowed in the contest--but
> ambiguities in our original rules allowed it to be used in the
> contest referred to in the article.
>
> + UCLA does not teach any Perl classes. This is not unusual--in fact,
> I don't know of any University that does. However, this has nothing to
> do with the contest or the reasons behind banning Perl--CSUA, the
> sponsoring organization of the contest, is student-run, and therefore
> our actions do not reflect back on UCLA.
>
> + CSUA offers several student-run classes on various languages and
> topics, including Perl.
>
> + CSUA offers Linux accounts and space for student-designed web pages
> and CGI. The CGI can be written in a variety of languages including
> Perl.
>
> INTRODUCTION
> You sent a letter to [EMAIL PROTECTED] asking about this document:
> <http://www.perl.org/advocacy/chiem.html>. The gist of the document is
> that perl was banned from a programming contest at UCLA because one
> programmer, Keith Chiem was able to do far better than all other
> contests because he used perl.
>
> INFORMATION ABOUT THE CONTEST
> The contest spoken of in the document is a local contest designed to
> prepare UCLA teams for competition in the acm programming contest, which
> is an international contest sponsored by the Association for Computing
> Machinery (<http://www.acm.org>). The contest information is at
> <http://acm.baylor.edu/acmicpc/>
>
> Contestants enter as teams of between 1 and 3 students, one of whom may
> be a graduate student. They are given approximately 6 computing problems
> which can be solved in any legal language. Solutions are presented to
> judges who will compile and run the programs and verify their accuracy.
> There is a time limit, with time penalties for incorrect solutions.
> Points are awarded based on number of problems solved. In a case of a
> tie, the team which completed the problems in the least amount of time
> wins.
>
> WHY PERL ISN'T ALLOWED
> Perl is not allowed because our local contest is designed to be a
> preparation for the regional ACM (and then, hopefully for nationals,
> etc...) According to the rules of the Southern California regional
> competition (which the local UCLA contest is designed to prepare
> students for), the only legal languages are C, C++, and Pascal. (see
> <http://www.calstate.edu/acm/environ.html>) That is why our local
> contest has never allowed Perl, or any other language not specifically
> mentioned above.
>
> I'm not sure why only C, C++, and Pascal are allowed in the
> regional competition--you'd have to talk to someone at the ACM
> organization. I suspect that it is because the ACM contest is designed
> to test the skills of the programmers, not their knowledge of various
> languages. And Pascal, C, and C++ are usually the languages taught in
> introductory-level CS courses.
>
> In earlier local contests (including the one in question), our rules
> stated that "only compiled languages could be used". This rule was made
> on the assumption that only C, C++, and Pascal could be compiled. Keith
> found a Perl compiler, and so used Perl for this contest, doing very
> well as the article stated. He was on a team of 3 people, but he
> personally solved 5 problems using Perl. The second-place team solved 3
> problems.
>
> After that contest, the local rules were revised to explicitly match the
> rules of the regional contest.
>
> Incidentally, last year the UCLA team placed 3rd in the regional
> contest--just behind Harvey Mudd and Caltech. This year we placed 4th,
> with Cal Poly also ahead (they beat Caltech as well).
>
> UCLA AND THEIR RELATION TO CSUA
> The local contest is organized and conducted by CSUA, UCLA which is a
> student-run computer science club. The actions taken by CSUA do not
> reflect back on UCLA as a whole. So even if we banned Perl because of a
> general dislike of it (which as you have seen is not the case), this
> would not indicate a general disdain for Perl by UCLA. So I do not
> believe your question about whether or not UCLA teaches Perl classes is
> relevant. But in any case, the answer is 'no'. Of course, it really
> isn't common for Universities to offer Perl classes.
>
> GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT CSUA
> CSUA supports the use of many languages. We offer UCLA CS students
> accounts on our GNU/Linux computer. These accounts include 50MB of
> disk space, and web space. Users are allowed to make CGI scripts in any
> language available on the system. These languages include: C, C++, Java,
> Perl, LISP, Scheme, bash, and PHP.
>
> In addition, CSUA has, and will continue to offer a wide variety of
> student-run classes designed to familiarize students with various
> languages, concepts, and processes. Classes have included: CGI using
> Perl, Java, Java and VRML (both Java classes have been very popular),
> CVS (a revision-control system), Active Server Pages, and MacOS
> programming.
>
> Currently CSUA is involved in a project to modernize and automate the CS
> department web site (the old website is at <http://www.cs.ucla.edu> the
> new one--which is still under construction is at
> <http://cascade.csua.ucla.edu>). Many students are working on the
> project.
>
> In addition, several CSUA and ex-CSUA members founded and are heavily
> involved with the multimedia search engine, <http://www.scour.net.>.
>
> CSUA also sells resume books to various companies, as well as sponsors Job
> fairs, etc. These activities are all free to students.
>
> I hope this answers your questions. If you have any more, feel free to
> send them to the officer's list (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>).
>
> Eric Guenterberg Kenji Sagae
> CSUA Officer at Large CSUA Contest Director
>
> =====
> Rich Morin [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1 650-873-7841 (-7843 Fax)
Nat~
