Darn--I liked the story better the first time around! But thanks for
setting me straight on this. Boy, you guys are great when it comes to
getting the correct information--ask, and you shall receive; or something
like that.
Betsy
At 05:25 PM 9/19/00 -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote:
>Betsy Waliszewski writes:
>> Thanks for finding out this information, Adam--this is really a cool story!
>> This may appear in the next success story.
>
>You need to read the followup, first. The reason this story isn't
>bigger news is that it's only part of the truth. This message
>from Rich Morin tells more ....
>
>The short version is that Perl was never supposed to be an acceptable
>language to use.
>
>> Nat-
>>
>> I followed up on the programming contest story, getting a very detailed
>> response from Eric Guenterberg ("CSUA Officer at large"). Here is his
>> answer, prefaced by his permission for me to forward it to you, etc.
>>
>> -Rich
>>
>> =====
>>
>> On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Rich Morin wrote:
>>
>> > Thank you for the detailed and responsive reply. Although it isn't as
>> > much fun as the story on www.perl.org, it is quite a bit more reasonable-
>> > sounding. I would like to know whether I may forward your reply to the
>> > webmaster of www.perl.org, and whether he is free to publish it. There
>> > is no guarantee, of course, that he will want to do so, but just in
>> >case...
>>
>> That would be great! Thanks,
>>
>> --Eric Guenterberg
>> CSUA Officer at large
>>
>> =====
>>
>> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:54:52 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Eric Guenterberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: Rich Morin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subject: Re: [officers] So, what's the story?
>>
>> On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Rich Morin wrote:
>>
>> > * List: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >
>> > The page http://www.perl.org/advocacy/chiem.html (quoted below) says that
>> > you have banned the Perl language from your programming competition.
>> >
>> > Is this the case? Would you care to tell me the "official story"? (This
>> > sounds like wonderful column fodder! :-) A few related questions might
>> > be in order, as:
>> >
>> > * Is the story below largely correct?
>> > * What is the exact charter for the contest?
>> > * Is Perl taught in any courses at UCLA? If so, which?
>> > * Have any other languages been banned from the contest?
>> > * On what grounds was Perl banned?
>>
>>
>> Rich:
>> Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. The reason for the delay
>> I have been very carefully checking all information to make sure it is
>> as accurate as possible.
>>
>> SYNOPSIS
>> + The contest is a local version of, and used to prepare for the ACM
>> contest. The charter for this is at:
>> <http://acm.baylor.edu/acmicpc/Info/AboutRegionals.html>
>>
>> + Only C, C++, and Pascal are allowed for the contest. This is to
>> bring our local contest in conformance with the regional
>> competition, and to help us better prepare for them.
>>
>> + Perl and the contest
>> - Perl was not banned because of the outcome of the contest
>> - Perl was never *meant* to be allowed in the contest--but
>> ambiguities in our original rules allowed it to be used in the
>> contest referred to in the article.
>>
>> + UCLA does not teach any Perl classes. This is not unusual--in fact,
>> I don't know of any University that does. However, this has nothing to
>> do with the contest or the reasons behind banning Perl--CSUA, the
>> sponsoring organization of the contest, is student-run, and therefore
>> our actions do not reflect back on UCLA.
>>
>> + CSUA offers several student-run classes on various languages and
>> topics, including Perl.
>>
>> + CSUA offers Linux accounts and space for student-designed web pages
>> and CGI. The CGI can be written in a variety of languages including
>> Perl.
>>
>> INTRODUCTION
>> You sent a letter to [EMAIL PROTECTED] asking about this document:
>> <http://www.perl.org/advocacy/chiem.html>. The gist of the document is
>> that perl was banned from a programming contest at UCLA because one
>> programmer, Keith Chiem was able to do far better than all other
>> contests because he used perl.
>>
>> INFORMATION ABOUT THE CONTEST
>> The contest spoken of in the document is a local contest designed to
>> prepare UCLA teams for competition in the acm programming contest, which
>> is an international contest sponsored by the Association for Computing
>> Machinery (<http://www.acm.org>). The contest information is at
>> <http://acm.baylor.edu/acmicpc/>
>>
>> Contestants enter as teams of between 1 and 3 students, one of whom may
>> be a graduate student. They are given approximately 6 computing problems
>> which can be solved in any legal language. Solutions are presented to
>> judges who will compile and run the programs and verify their accuracy.
>> There is a time limit, with time penalties for incorrect solutions.
>> Points are awarded based on number of problems solved. In a case of a
>> tie, the team which completed the problems in the least amount of time
>> wins.
>>
>> WHY PERL ISN'T ALLOWED
>> Perl is not allowed because our local contest is designed to be a
>> preparation for the regional ACM (and then, hopefully for nationals,
>> etc...) According to the rules of the Southern California regional
>> competition (which the local UCLA contest is designed to prepare
>> students for), the only legal languages are C, C++, and Pascal. (see
>> <http://www.calstate.edu/acm/environ.html>) That is why our local
>> contest has never allowed Perl, or any other language not specifically
>> mentioned above.
>>
>> I'm not sure why only C, C++, and Pascal are allowed in the
>> regional competition--you'd have to talk to someone at the ACM
>> organization. I suspect that it is because the ACM contest is designed
>> to test the skills of the programmers, not their knowledge of various
>> languages. And Pascal, C, and C++ are usually the languages taught in
>> introductory-level CS courses.
>>
>> In earlier local contests (including the one in question), our rules
>> stated that "only compiled languages could be used". This rule was made
>> on the assumption that only C, C++, and Pascal could be compiled. Keith
>> found a Perl compiler, and so used Perl for this contest, doing very
>> well as the article stated. He was on a team of 3 people, but he
>> personally solved 5 problems using Perl. The second-place team solved 3
>> problems.
>>
>> After that contest, the local rules were revised to explicitly match the
>> rules of the regional contest.
>>
>> Incidentally, last year the UCLA team placed 3rd in the regional
>> contest--just behind Harvey Mudd and Caltech. This year we placed 4th,
>> with Cal Poly also ahead (they beat Caltech as well).
>>
>> UCLA AND THEIR RELATION TO CSUA
>> The local contest is organized and conducted by CSUA, UCLA which is a
>> student-run computer science club. The actions taken by CSUA do not
>> reflect back on UCLA as a whole. So even if we banned Perl because of a
>> general dislike of it (which as you have seen is not the case), this
>> would not indicate a general disdain for Perl by UCLA. So I do not
>> believe your question about whether or not UCLA teaches Perl classes is
>> relevant. But in any case, the answer is 'no'. Of course, it really
>> isn't common for Universities to offer Perl classes.
>>
>> GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT CSUA
>> CSUA supports the use of many languages. We offer UCLA CS students
>> accounts on our GNU/Linux computer. These accounts include 50MB of
>> disk space, and web space. Users are allowed to make CGI scripts in any
>> language available on the system. These languages include: C, C++, Java,
>> Perl, LISP, Scheme, bash, and PHP.
>>
>> In addition, CSUA has, and will continue to offer a wide variety of
>> student-run classes designed to familiarize students with various
>> languages, concepts, and processes. Classes have included: CGI using
>> Perl, Java, Java and VRML (both Java classes have been very popular),
>> CVS (a revision-control system), Active Server Pages, and MacOS
>> programming.
>>
>> Currently CSUA is involved in a project to modernize and automate the CS
>> department web site (the old website is at <http://www.cs.ucla.edu> the
>> new one--which is still under construction is at
>> <http://cascade.csua.ucla.edu>). Many students are working on the
>> project.
>>
>> In addition, several CSUA and ex-CSUA members founded and are heavily
>> involved with the multimedia search engine, <http://www.scour.net.>.
>>
>> CSUA also sells resume books to various companies, as well as sponsors Job
>> fairs, etc. These activities are all free to students.
>>
>> I hope this answers your questions. If you have any more, feel free to
>> send them to the officer's list (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>).
>>
>> Eric Guenterberg Kenji Sagae
>> CSUA Officer at Large CSUA Contest Director
>>
>> =====
>> Rich Morin [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1 650-873-7841 (-7843 Fax)
>
>Nat~
>
>
