So does porn qualify re aesthetic experience? WC
--- On Sat, 10/11/08, GEOFF CREALOCK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: GEOFF CREALOCK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: Expertise and aesthetic experience > To: [email protected] > Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 3:18 PM > Here is my "vague summary" definition of > "aesthetic experience" > (idiosyncratic though it may be): a satisfying or > significantly pleasurable > response, sustantially but not necessarily solely > affective, to a stimulus > (painting, poem, play, photograph or natural event - add > your own > favourite). > I agree that definition is difficult, but that is not, for > me, a reason to > make no effort. (Look at the fine work of President Bush to > manage national > debt.) > Geoff C > > > >From: William Conger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [email protected] > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: Re: Expertise and aesthetic experience > >Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 08:27:27 -0700 (PDT) > > > >Most philosophers say that whatever the aesthetic > "experience" is, it > >cannot be fully explicated because to do that is to > describe it in terms > >separate from the experience. Experience is a flow, a > continuum, always > >mixed with a variety of feelings and memories in > addition to the moment at > >hand. How is it possible to isolate "an > experience" except in vague > >summary? Thus I think the aesthetic experience, a > faulty term, is > >ineffable. In fact, I suspect we could say the same > about any sort of > >experience whatsoever. We need to use a language to > reconstruct the > >presumed experience and that has its own experiental or > even aesthetic > >evocative and therefore constructive aspects. In > short, the word we use to > >describe our experience is also an experience and thus > has its own defining > >impact. > > > >Because no experience can be replicated by a language I > frankly have no > >idea what an aesthetic experience is. Some episodes of > my ongoing > >experiental life seem to be more surprising and > fascinating, and remind me > >of the "oceanic" metaphor, like out of body > fantasies, but, really, nothing > >is adequately both necessary and sufficient to describe > any experience > >without making it anew, and false. > > > >I am one who answered in the affirmative regarding the > "aesthetic" benefit > >of learning from critics. I use the word critic > expansively here, and > >apply it a range of writers from writers like > Baudelaire to art scholars > >like TJ Clark, among hundreds of others. Why? These > people have given me > >deeper access to art, enabling me to experience it far > more fully than I > >might have otherwise. Sometimes, their prose alone is > so enlightening that > >it becomes fused, as it were, with the artworks they > discuss. And isn't > >art something that should attract and reflect the > distilled experiences > >expressed by its audiences? When it begins life, an > artwork is empty, or > >meaningless, as all things are, and attains vitality > through the content > >its audiences create and vicariously extend to it. > > > >WC > > > > > > > > > >--- On Sat, 10/11/08, Chris Miller > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > From: Chris Miller > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Subject: Re: Expertise and aesthetic experience > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 9:05 AM > > > As Derek once asked, "What *is* an > "aesthetic > > > experience"?" --- and perhaps > > > not everyone here would say that they had such > things - or > > > even if we all > > > would -- it's quite likely that we use the > phrase > > > differently. > > > > > > As Mando would say -- it's a "Wow!" > kind of > > > experience -- and perhaps we would > > > all agree -- but beyond that ? > > > > > > For example both Cheerskep and I like to watch > sports -- > > > but I would never > > > call any of those experiences > "aesthetic" - > > > however exciting/intense they may > > > be. > > > > > > Last week -- I saw an animated mural at our local > natural > > > history museum. It > > > made me feel like I was immersed in a primeval > forest and > > > about to get > > > trampled by a herd of woolly mammoth -- a very > big WoW! for > > > me -- but I would > > > save the term "aesthetic experience" > for what I > > > felt from some of the > > > Southwest Indian painted jars in another part of > the > > > exhibit. > > > > > > Perhaps no one else here would make that kind of > > > distinction. > > > > > > Though I still agree with Cheerskep that expert > advice > > > has never caused me > > > to derive an aesthetic experience from a work > that did not > > > occasion it > > > before. > > > > > > (and I'm still waiting to read a specific > counter > > > example) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > Save on Trade Schools - Click here. > > > > >http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijngXBHjt6K4ObtF0SYW7bnSi > > > Jb2hoPN7pFCon3Vfe6SMf1jO/
