IT'S in the eye,ear,nose of individual and like minded ones.
Not new, but so true. So relax and enjoy.
mando
On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:31 AM, Chris Miller wrote:
If non-verbal music represents nothing - has no content - and
therefore
cannot engage any questions about the human condition (free will
versus.
determinism, etc) ------- how can we call any of it "profound"?
Kivy says that we can't - as long as we're willing to distinguish
between
profound (the adjective) and profoundly (the adverb), and he notes
that most
arguments about profundity are attending exclusively to adverb.
To say that "Beethoven's Fifth Symphony has been profoundly
influential or
profoundly defiant" does not imply that Beethoven's Fifth Symphony is
profound.
(just as, in our discussions on this list, to say that an abstract
painting
can be profoundly meaningless, would not imply that an abstract
painting can
be profound)
"For a work of art to be profound - and literature is the obvious
example here
- it must (1) have a profound subject matter and (2) treat this
profound
subject matter in a way adequate to its profundity." (p. 145)
Of course, we are all free to make our own definitions -- the most
common of
which would probably be: "Profundity is whatever feels really really
important to me".
But if you're going to move beyond that obvious solipsism, I don't
know where
you can go besides a definition similar to Kivy's.
Apparently Kivy made this assertion is an earlier book of his,
"Music Alone",
to which various philsophers have replied. So in this chapter, Kivy
deals with
two of those replies at some length.
And he demonstrates, at least to my satisfaction, that these
opposing argument
are either attempting to stretch the adverb, profoundly, into the
adjective,
profound (Aaron Ridley) - or - they conflate expression with being
about
expression (Jerrold Levinson)
So ask yourself, when you are listening to music that feels sad,
are you then
led to reflect on the notion of "sadness"?
Kivy doesn't and neither do I. Not that we can speak for the
majority of
listeners - but should the study of aesthetics be conducted by "the
boring and
laborious process of polling listeners" (as Kivy calls it)
And even you reflect on some notion of sadness - do you ever frame
that
reflection as a question which might have a true or false answer?
"One can, perhaps, get the music to be "about" But to make it say
anything
interesting, let along profound about anything, seems beyond the
ingenuity of
philosophy, at present, to achieve. Of course, one can never
prove the negative, so I will be forced to leave it at that"
But still ----
What words would we use to distinguish the value of a Beethoven
symphony from
that of a 3 minute pop song ?
And why wouldn't this same argument apply to abstract painting and
sculpture?
And if we consider John Coltrane's "Love Supreme" to be profound,
would it
really be any less so if the phrase "A Love Supreme" were omitted
from the
performance?
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