I'm curious how your software knew of the bounced ach? I know with IPPay they didn't have a way to report this back to the software until fairly recently. What processor were you using? Or was it just someone checking every day as part of their job?
Cameron On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:52 AM, Larry Smith <lesm...@ecsis.net> wrote: > > Checks are a very outdated method for payment > > May be, but under US Law (Uniform Commercial Code) > a check is a "promisary note" and as such a contract to pay. > You can easily take someone to court over a bounced or bad > check. > > -- > Larry Smith > lesm...@ecsis.net > > On Fri June 29 2018 08:43, Matt Hoppes wrote: > > Oh yes, we have people complain all the time that they went to the bank > and > > sent a check out but we never got it for another two weeks or so. > > > > We also have people who say that their checks got lost in the mail or we > > get an envelope that was never sealed. > > > > Yet another reason why I tell people that the credit card payment method > is > > much more secure than checks. > > > > Checks are a very outdated method for payment > > > > > On Jun 29, 2018, at 09:38, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > My cost of doing business was lower, which is why I did it. Maybe yours > > > isn't. I will say it was a management push on my part to enforce > policies > > > that got everyone on ACH if possible. ACH was free, CC wasn't. As a > > > result, maybe we had a more general cross section of our customer base > on > > > ACH that you so we didn't huge differences. And I guess that's why > people > > > do it differently. Your experience wasn't mine. But if mine was 5 times > > > worse I would still find it compelling from a monetary viewpoint. But, > it > > > really wasn't an issue for us from the PITA point of view because the > > > software handled most of it. Maybe your customer base was significantly > > > different than mine. We also got a big kick in ACH enrollment because a > > > bunch of the banks in our area used the same "Bill Pay" check printing > > > service. As we got one envelope with 150 checks in it for different > > > accounts, all listing something stupid like ISP as the account number, > > > and on top of that, payment was made late. The inevitable calls came in > > > about why they were charged late fees, they scheduled it payed a week > > > ahead of deadlines, etc. We would have to explain that we could show > them > > > the postmark, the date on the check, etc. Customer would say "they took > > > the money out of my account on ...". Our pitch was always that if they > > > let us pull the money via ACH we wouldn't charge them and they could > > > never be assessed a late fee if we did the ACH. That got a bunch. But > > > again, our experiences seem to be quite different. > > > > > > I just put the possibility of contested CC out there. I don't think we > > > ever had anyone contest a charge. Maybe once on an install. I don't > > > remember it if we did. But in my experience, that possibility was > roughly > > > the same as my chances of losing more money doing ACH than CC. > > > > > > In the end, that is what's great about this place right? I don't have > to > > > do it like you and vice versa. > > > > > >> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:06 AM Matt Hoppes > > >> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: It’s just the cost of > doing > > >> business. > > >> > > >> And yes they do have 60 days to contest it but most people don’t. > > >> > > >> We have a small handful of ACH and the number of bounced transactions > > >> that occurred there is much much much higher than anyone contesting a > > >> credit card transactions. > > >> > > >>> On Jun 29, 2018, at 08:21, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> If you can't figure it out maybe math is the issue. 25 cents for ACH. > > >>> CC is 2.75% and up. If you are doing 400k a month in CC that adds up > to > > >>> about 10k more in fees. In all the time we did ACH we probably lost > an > > >>> additional 3k that we would not have lost with CC. So.... 3k in 10 > > >>> years is less than 10k in one month. > > >>> > > >>> So why do people still do it...they can do simple arithmetic? > > >>> > > >>> You do raise some valid points. If you have to have the money and > can't > > >>> wait two days and so want to pay an effective annual interest rate > that > > >>> is enormous. > > >>> > > >>> If you are drafting the routing and account info is your customers > not > > >>> yours. > > >>> > > >>> I had someone fraudulently present a check for 92k on my account. > Maybe > > >>> that proves your point, but the bank credited my account in a couple > of > > >>> weeks and it really wasn't a big deal to get done. Only time it has > > >>> ever happened. So again, the math tells me even if that happened > every > > >>> year one time instead of once in twenty years, and I didn't get my > > >>> money back, I would still be better off using ACH. > > >>> > > >>> But, to each his own. I know a lot of people don't like the 2 day > > >>> settlement period for ACH. in truth, CC is longer. You have what... > 60 > > >>> days for someone to contest a charge. While they do it the bank takes > > >>> the money back. Not that that is a big risk. Probably about the same > as > > >>> someone's ACH not clearing. > > >>> > > >>>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 9:39 PM Matt Hoppes > > >>>> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: ACH is slow (2 days to > > >>>> clear) > > >>>> ACH is insecure (bank account numbers can be gotten off checks, etc) > > >>>> ACH can wipe you out (if someone gets those account numbers) > > >>>> ACH does not provide real-time-feedback (may not know things didn’t > > >>>> work until it bounces two days later) > > >>>> > > >>>> Why anyone still uses ACH or checks or beyond me. > > >>>> > > >>>> A credit card is: > > >>>> Instant (funds transfer immediately, you instantly know if the funds > > >>>> are coming or not) > > >>>> > > >>>> Secure (there is a CVV code required - just having the number gets > you > > >>>> nowhere) > > >>>> > > >>>> Safe (if someone does steal your card they won’t wipe out your > account > > >>>> and you can quickly get the funds/transactions reversed) > > >>>> > > >>>> Easy to dispute > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> I have one vendor I pay via check every month because they won’t > take > > >>>> cards. Otherwise everything I pay personally and business is on CC. > > >>>> > > >>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 21:59, David Sovereen > > >>>>> <david.sover...@mercury.net> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Same here. ACH saves us a bundle, and once customers are used to > the > > >>>>> recurring payment, there are few bounces. Once a payment does > bounce, > > >>>>> however, we only take cash or card... guaranteed funds. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Dave > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone > > >>>>> > > >>>>> David Sovereen > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Mercury Network Corporation > > >>>>> 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640 > > >>>>> 989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free | 989.837.3780 > fax > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Telephone | Internet | Security Alarm Monitoring > > >>>>> > > >>>>> david.sover...@mercury.net > > >>>>> www.mercury.net > > >>>>> > > >>>>> <image001.png> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Lewis Bergman < > lewis.berg...@gmail.com> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> That's true but if you assess a hefty enough penalty then they pay > > >>>>>> you for it anyway. I used to make several thousand a month just > off > > >>>>>> of late fees and disconnect fees. We assessed a 25 dollar fee for > > >>>>>> any NSF. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 4:49 PM Matt Hoppes > > >>>>>>> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: Sure but it takes two > > >>>>>>> days for the failure to come back, so the customer can use that > to > > >>>>>>> game the system if they feel so inclined. With a credit card the > > >>>>>>> acceptance or rejection is instant. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:30, Lewis Bergman < > lewis.berg...@gmail.com> > > >>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I guess it depends on your billing system, how it cuts off > people, > > >>>>>>>> etc. Mine would accept payment, then reverse it and cut people > off > > >>>>>>>> automatically. One of the few things it did well. I was mostly > ACH > > >>>>>>>> and it saved me a couple of grand a month if I remember > correctly. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 4:25 PM Matt Hoppes > > >>>>>>>>> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: Hey CH is a pain > in my > > >>>>>>>>> neck. Yes I don’t have to pay fees with the fees are very > small, > > >>>>>>>>> but I am not guaranteed my money, and then I have to chase > > >>>>>>>>> balances and add fees and remove payments. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:20, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com > > > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer- > perspect > > >>>>>>>>>>ive-part-1/ > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Might be of interest for those of you whose billing systems > are > > >>>>>>>>>> set up for ACH direct debits via checking account numbers. > > > > > > -- > > > AF mailing list > > > AF@af.afmug.com > > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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