I checked on this with the guy who actually did it for me. It turns out that our gateway and our bank turned over our ACH rejects to a collection deal automatically. Maybe that is why our problems were so low. They would start collections immediately. We had a ton of businesses on it as well. The software was Freeside and we had customer work done all the time on that tar trap mess of a program. I could swear that we had some API or import for that. Maybe I am dreaming. Maybe we had some clerk somewhere typing away.
I do remember that we averaged only one or two ACH rejects a month. The numbers I quote aren't made up as they are approximates from our billing back then. Once the numbers get decently large you would have to have a TON of issues to make up the fee differences between ACH and CC. It literally paid for 2 installers and a supervisor's pay. On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 9:23 AM Cameron Crum <cc...@murcevilo.com> wrote: > I'm curious how your software knew of the bounced ach? I know with IPPay > they didn't have a way to report this back to the software until fairly > recently. What processor were you using? Or was it just someone checking > every day as part of their job? > > > Cameron > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:52 AM, Larry Smith <lesm...@ecsis.net> wrote: > >> > Checks are a very outdated method for payment >> >> May be, but under US Law (Uniform Commercial Code) >> a check is a "promisary note" and as such a contract to pay. >> You can easily take someone to court over a bounced or bad >> check. >> >> -- >> Larry Smith >> lesm...@ecsis.net >> >> On Fri June 29 2018 08:43, Matt Hoppes wrote: >> > Oh yes, we have people complain all the time that they went to the bank >> and >> > sent a check out but we never got it for another two weeks or so. >> > >> > We also have people who say that their checks got lost in the mail or we >> > get an envelope that was never sealed. >> > >> > Yet another reason why I tell people that the credit card payment >> method is >> > much more secure than checks. >> > >> > Checks are a very outdated method for payment >> > >> > > On Jun 29, 2018, at 09:38, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > > >> > > My cost of doing business was lower, which is why I did it. Maybe >> yours >> > > isn't. I will say it was a management push on my part to enforce >> policies >> > > that got everyone on ACH if possible. ACH was free, CC wasn't. As a >> > > result, maybe we had a more general cross section of our customer >> base on >> > > ACH that you so we didn't huge differences. And I guess that's why >> people >> > > do it differently. Your experience wasn't mine. But if mine was 5 >> times >> > > worse I would still find it compelling from a monetary viewpoint. >> But, it >> > > really wasn't an issue for us from the PITA point of view because the >> > > software handled most of it. Maybe your customer base was >> significantly >> > > different than mine. We also got a big kick in ACH enrollment because >> a >> > > bunch of the banks in our area used the same "Bill Pay" check printing >> > > service. As we got one envelope with 150 checks in it for different >> > > accounts, all listing something stupid like ISP as the account number, >> > > and on top of that, payment was made late. The inevitable calls came >> in >> > > about why they were charged late fees, they scheduled it payed a week >> > > ahead of deadlines, etc. We would have to explain that we could show >> them >> > > the postmark, the date on the check, etc. Customer would say "they >> took >> > > the money out of my account on ...". Our pitch was always that if they >> > > let us pull the money via ACH we wouldn't charge them and they could >> > > never be assessed a late fee if we did the ACH. That got a bunch. But >> > > again, our experiences seem to be quite different. >> > > >> > > I just put the possibility of contested CC out there. I don't think we >> > > ever had anyone contest a charge. Maybe once on an install. I don't >> > > remember it if we did. But in my experience, that possibility was >> roughly >> > > the same as my chances of losing more money doing ACH than CC. >> > > >> > > In the end, that is what's great about this place right? I don't have >> to >> > > do it like you and vice versa. >> > > >> > >> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:06 AM Matt Hoppes >> > >> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: It’s just the cost of >> doing >> > >> business. >> > >> >> > >> And yes they do have 60 days to contest it but most people don’t. >> > >> >> > >> We have a small handful of ACH and the number of bounced transactions >> > >> that occurred there is much much much higher than anyone contesting a >> > >> credit card transactions. >> > >> >> > >>> On Jun 29, 2018, at 08:21, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> >> > >>> wrote: >> > >>> >> > >>> If you can't figure it out maybe math is the issue. 25 cents for >> ACH. >> > >>> CC is 2.75% and up. If you are doing 400k a month in CC that adds >> up to >> > >>> about 10k more in fees. In all the time we did ACH we probably lost >> an >> > >>> additional 3k that we would not have lost with CC. So.... 3k in 10 >> > >>> years is less than 10k in one month. >> > >>> >> > >>> So why do people still do it...they can do simple arithmetic? >> > >>> >> > >>> You do raise some valid points. If you have to have the money and >> can't >> > >>> wait two days and so want to pay an effective annual interest rate >> that >> > >>> is enormous. >> > >>> >> > >>> If you are drafting the routing and account info is your customers >> not >> > >>> yours. >> > >>> >> > >>> I had someone fraudulently present a check for 92k on my account. >> Maybe >> > >>> that proves your point, but the bank credited my account in a >> couple of >> > >>> weeks and it really wasn't a big deal to get done. Only time it has >> > >>> ever happened. So again, the math tells me even if that happened >> every >> > >>> year one time instead of once in twenty years, and I didn't get my >> > >>> money back, I would still be better off using ACH. >> > >>> >> > >>> But, to each his own. I know a lot of people don't like the 2 day >> > >>> settlement period for ACH. in truth, CC is longer. You have what... >> 60 >> > >>> days for someone to contest a charge. While they do it the bank >> takes >> > >>> the money back. Not that that is a big risk. Probably about the >> same as >> > >>> someone's ACH not clearing. >> > >>> >> > >>>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 9:39 PM Matt Hoppes >> > >>>> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: ACH is slow (2 days to >> > >>>> clear) >> > >>>> ACH is insecure (bank account numbers can be gotten off checks, >> etc) >> > >>>> ACH can wipe you out (if someone gets those account numbers) >> > >>>> ACH does not provide real-time-feedback (may not know things didn’t >> > >>>> work until it bounces two days later) >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Why anyone still uses ACH or checks or beyond me. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> A credit card is: >> > >>>> Instant (funds transfer immediately, you instantly know if the >> funds >> > >>>> are coming or not) >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Secure (there is a CVV code required - just having the number gets >> you >> > >>>> nowhere) >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Safe (if someone does steal your card they won’t wipe out your >> account >> > >>>> and you can quickly get the funds/transactions reversed) >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Easy to dispute >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> I have one vendor I pay via check every month because they won’t >> take >> > >>>> cards. Otherwise everything I pay personally and business is on CC. >> > >>>> >> > >>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 21:59, David Sovereen >> > >>>>> <david.sover...@mercury.net> wrote: >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Same here. ACH saves us a bundle, and once customers are used to >> the >> > >>>>> recurring payment, there are few bounces. Once a payment does >> bounce, >> > >>>>> however, we only take cash or card... guaranteed funds. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Dave >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> David Sovereen >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Mercury Network Corporation >> > >>>>> 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640 >> > >>>>> 989.837.3790 x151 <(989)%20837-3790> office | 888.866.4638 >> <(888)%20866-4638> toll free | 989.837.3780 <(989)%20837-3780> fax >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Telephone | Internet | Security Alarm Monitoring >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> david.sover...@mercury.net >> > >>>>> www.mercury.net >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> <image001.png> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Lewis Bergman < >> lewis.berg...@gmail.com> >> > >>>>>> wrote: >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> That's true but if you assess a hefty enough penalty then they >> pay >> > >>>>>> you for it anyway. I used to make several thousand a month just >> off >> > >>>>>> of late fees and disconnect fees. We assessed a 25 dollar fee for >> > >>>>>> any NSF. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 4:49 PM Matt Hoppes >> > >>>>>>> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: Sure but it takes >> two >> > >>>>>>> days for the failure to come back, so the customer can use that >> to >> > >>>>>>> game the system if they feel so inclined. With a credit card the >> > >>>>>>> acceptance or rejection is instant. >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:30, Lewis Bergman < >> lewis.berg...@gmail.com> >> > >>>>>>>> wrote: >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> I guess it depends on your billing system, how it cuts off >> people, >> > >>>>>>>> etc. Mine would accept payment, then reverse it and cut people >> off >> > >>>>>>>> automatically. One of the few things it did well. I was mostly >> ACH >> > >>>>>>>> and it saved me a couple of grand a month if I remember >> correctly. >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 4:25 PM Matt Hoppes >> > >>>>>>>>> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: Hey CH is a pain >> in my >> > >>>>>>>>> neck. Yes I don’t have to pay fees with the fees are very >> small, >> > >>>>>>>>> but I am not guaranteed my money, and then I have to chase >> > >>>>>>>>> balances and add fees and remove payments. >> > >>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:20, Eric Kuhnke < >> eric.kuh...@gmail.com> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> > >>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> >> https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspect >> > >>>>>>>>>>ive-part-1/ >> > >>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Might be of interest for those of you whose billing systems >> are >> > >>>>>>>>>> set up for ACH direct debits via checking account numbers. >> > > >> > > -- >> > > AF mailing list >> > > AF@af.afmug.com >> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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