according to this website https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-04-05/gps-rollover-global-positioning-system-receivers-satellites/10966218
Then there's Russia's GLONASS, which eschewed the week number and used a "day number" instead. It resets every four years, with the next due on New Year's Day, 2020. On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 12:12 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: > Sierra Wireless should pay you a consulting fee to help them fix this > problem. At a minimum, let you have a copy of the source code. > > > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian > (List Account) > *Sent:* Thursday, January 2, 2020 7:58 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mass GPS issues > > > > All of the affected modules should be able to be flashed. Whether or not > the facility is in place to do so depends a lot on the design choices > made. I purposefully have ensured that there is some way to update > firmware in the field for all of these modules, with varying levels of > pain. I'm going to make a educated guess and say that if you have a > rackinjector in place, there is a good chance you won't have much pain in > the event this firmware needs to be updated. The worst case scenario > will require a cable being physically plugged into the GPS receiver - I > know this is specifically the case with the SyncBox junior Aux ports since > there is no other way to get a serial console to the GPS module due to the > AUX port pinning. > > > > How much of this is a firmware update vs a configuration change in the > modules, I can't say for sure at this point. I think we're heading into > the speculation category further than I want to do until we have a better > idea what is really involved here. The good news is that things are > progressing. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 6:31 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: > > The crucial question seems to be, do we mark our calendars for 4 years > from now, midnight Moscow time, New Years Eve 2023? So we can power cycle > a bunch of GPS receivers? > > > > Or is there some kind of retroactive fix that can be applied? > > > > Or do we have 4 years to physically replace the devices? If so, with > what? I guess it’s not the end of the world to replace a bunch of > Syncboxes on towers if we have 4 years to do it, as long as we have a > replacement device available. > > > > I’d like to think we could log into a Sync/Power/RackInjector and squirt > new firmware into the attached GPS receiver, but I doubt it. Same with a > Cambium UGPS. Not sure about ePMP. > > > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian > (List Account) > *Sent:* Thursday, January 2, 2020 7:12 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mass GPS issues > > > > Yes, and it happens a lot apparently. I.E. it looked weird, but it > wasn't. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 6:05 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > > Was the weird clock update from GPS PRN 29 sent about 20 minutes before > midnight Moscow time just coincidence? > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > > *From: *"Forrest Christian (List Account)" <li...@packetflux.com> > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> > *Sent: *Thursday, January 2, 2020 6:53:14 PM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] mass GPS issues > > For us, we have only been shipping GPS+GLONASS since late in 2017 or 2018, > so this is the first GLONASS rollover for us. Remember this is still > speculation here, but I am starting to feel like this most likely will turn > out to be the underlying cause. > > > > All of us with the issue seem to be running AXN5.1.1 which was built at > the end of 2017. This might be specific to that firmware version/build. > > > > There are lots of GPS modules out there of varying quality, but few which > are really suitable for 1PPS synchronization. Believe me, I've evaluated > enough of them to know. I even evaluated a GPS module earlier this year > which was specifically targeted to timing applications (including survey-in > and single-satellite operation) and discovered that it was far worse > timing-wise than the ones we're using. The mediatek based modules seem to > be a good mix of low cost and really good 1PPS performance. Pretty much > any others are multiples of the price. This is probably why we've all > ended up using the same modules. > > > > But if you're looking for a cheap GPS receiver and don't care about 1PPS > you might end up with something else. And probably a different firmware > build. > > > > TOTAL SPECULATION: One suspicion I have is that the behavior of the > device might be related to which constellation it is preferring, because if > GLONASS is saying 2016 and GPS is saying 2020 (according to your broken > firmware), then you might find a module which thinks it's 2016 based on > GLONASS but is getting these confusing signals from GPS which says it's > 2019/2020. An alternate module that is convinced it's 2019/2020 might not > be happy about GLONASS trying to say it's 2016. The behavior would > probably have to be different in both cases and possibly would alternate > between the behaviors if one was not preferred for some RF reason. > > > > On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 5:14 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: > > I’m not sure it’s true that only Cambium products were affected. It > appears to be more a certain 3rd party GPS+GLONASS receiver module that > Packetflux uses in their latest production of Syncboxes and that Cambium > apparently uses in their latest UGPS production. Are Packetflux sync > products used to time anything but Cambium? Probably not. Certainly some > other manufacturers must OEM that particular module, you’d think some newer > auto GPS nav products or autosteer tractors or ICBMs or whatever must have > gone bonkers. Even if they only use location data and not time sync or a > 1pps signal, it seemed like the GPS sats just disappeared. > > > > Older Cambium and Packetflux products as well as Last Mile Gear CTM-1 and > CTM-2 seemed unaffected, I assume because they used different, older > modules inside. It’s interesting that Nate reports his ePMP APs tracked > fewer satellites but not down to zero, and recovered without a power > cycle. Different GPS+GLONASS module? Different firmware in the module? > Inquiring minds want to know. > > > > > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes > *Sent:* Thursday, January 2, 2020 5:42 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mass GPS issues > > > > So why didn’t this happen four years ago? And why were only Cambium type > products affected? > > > On Jan 2, 2020, at 6:13 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) < > li...@packetflux.com> wrote: > > The answer to your question is complicated. The short answer is that not > in the way you stated it, as there isn't good enough clock hardware in the > rackinjector to do this holdover, and the current electrical architecture > isn't set up to permit the generation of a clock internally. We're > looking at some options though so you might see something like this in the > future. We're also looking at doing a hardware revision to the control > board to permit a high quality holdover oscillator to be added. This > work was underway well before this event, but hasn't progressed to the > point that there are really any details as to what form this might take and > when it might happen. > > > > On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 4:00 PM Eric Muehleisen <ericm...@gmail.com> wrote: > > A great feature would be for the RackInjector to generate it's own > hold-over sync if it were to loose GPS. Any possibility of including > something like that in the next firmware update? > > > > On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 8:45 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) < > li...@packetflux.com> wrote: > > One note is that on later RackInjectors, rebooting the rackinjector not > only won't reboot attached devices, it also won't reboot the GPS receiver. > This is to permit reboots of the control interface without affecting > connected device at all. This includes *most* firmware upgrades. > > > > So for the later boards, you'll need to reset it on the GPS status page. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 6:29 PM Andreas Wiatowski <andr...@silo.ca> wrote: > > Thanks Forrest, let us know what you find. I can confirm that I have done > the power cycle on the Rack injectors....we have seen the same issue occur > again...feels like interference. > > It has been suggested by some to switch to Autosync+Freerun to avoid loss > of client use...I guess it really depends on your networks reuse scheme. > > <image861500.jpg> > > *Internet.*** > ** > *Phone.****TV.* > > *Andreas Wiatowski* > > CEO/Founder > > Silo > > *1-866-727-4138, ext 600* <1-866-727-4138,%20ext%20600> > > | > > *andr...@silo.ca* <andr...@silo.ca> > > *silo.ca* <http://www.silo.ca/> > > > > <image461146.png> > > > > > > <image041427.png> > > > On Dec 31, 2019, at 8:05 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) < > li...@packetflux.com> wrote: > > > > [EXTERNAL] > > Just an update/random informational message, a lot of which is pretty > obvious from this thread: > > > > 1) As is pretty obvious at this point, something happened either with > the GPS constellation or with the firmware which runs in the GPS module, or > some combination of those. What many of you might not be aware of is that > many vendors use the same GPS modules from the same vendor. Generally a > certain portion of the uGPS, PacketFlux, ePMP all will use the same module, > along with other vendors. Each of the vendors (including PacketFlux) has > changed the exact model of the module over the years, for instance the > GPS+glonass modules are in newer devices, and GPS only are in older ones. > I'm working through determining whether this is just the GPS+GLONASS > modules which are affected (it seems like it might be the case), or if it's > a few different types. Note that because this seems like it might be > confined to a certain type (or types) of module, that it might turn out to > be only certain date/model ranges of each type of gear which are affected. > > > > 2) Restart of the module seems to clear the issue. For PacketFlux gear, > anyone with a SiteMonitor or RackInjector should be able to do this > remotely. In the SiteMonitor, the row on the binary tab is labeled > something like 'SyncPipe power'. There might be multiple rows depending on > how many SyncInjector/PowerInjectors you have - this corresponds to the > power port on each injector, so you'll have to turn off the row which is > for the unit which the GPS receiver is attached to. In the RackInjector, > it's a bit simpler since it's just a button on the GPS page. > > > > 3) I'm currently working through trying to find anyone who really knows > what went on here. None of the usual notification locations seem to have > any data. Probably too early to tell. I might luck out and be able to get a > GPS constellation recording I can replay here to replicate. > > > > One thing which might be helpful is for those of you who log this stuff, > if you can provide a pretty close UTC time that this occurred, along with > the approximate LAT/LONG, I might be able to correlate this with a specific > event. > > > > - Forrest > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > -- > > - Forrest > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > -- > > - Forrest > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > -- > > - Forrest > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > -- > > - Forrest > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > -- > > - Forrest > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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