Don’t RO units waste as much water as they make? Do they use lots of power?
Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 30, 2020, at 7:35 AM, Lewis Bergman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I'll have to look at the brand I have. I have had tankless for about 25 years > now in 2 different houses. First, the electric ones suck and I wouldn't have > one. The gas ones of either type are great. I had a Bosch for 20 years and I > had to clean the firing tip with sandpaper twice in that time. That location > had soft water and we had no water softener. The new house has two units that > are plumbed together and if the demand gets too much for one the other fires > up and keeps up with the floor. Found out recently though that they are not > redundant. If the first one has issues the second one never comes on. > Evidently many of these forced air jobs that have PVC exhaust pipes also have > filters. Check you unit before installing it so that if yours has a filter > that has to be cleaned once a year like mine, you can easily get to it. > If you have hard water, definitely install a water softener in front of it to > lengthen its service life. My new place with the dual ones has a big water > softener. I am thinking if I ever build another I might get one of those > whole house RO units. They have come down a lot in the last few years and you > can now get a whole house RO that puts out 500 gallons a day for a couple > thousand dollars. If you are smart enough to have home run plumbing done you > could have one that is a lot less expensive only supply the hot water, sinks, > dish washer, and ice maker. > >> On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 12:22 PM Colin Stanners <[email protected]> wrote: >> The latter brand is likely Rinnai or Rheem. I'm surprised that you saw >> issues with Takagi, I thought that they were a higher quality brand. >> >> >>> On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 11:58 AM Chuck McCown via AF <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I am generally the first one up. I turn on the shower then the hot water >>> tap to brush my teeth. By the time my teeth are done the water temp has >>> stabilized. I have a 200Kbtu heater (actually 2 of them for two parts of >>> the house). I never seem to notice much of a temp difference when you are >>> in the shower and someone starts something else. You can hear the heater >>> instantly rev up when more flow is detected. Takagi were crap. Rhinni >>> have lasted much longer. Not sure I spelled those correctly. >>> >>> From: Nate Burke >>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 10:43 AM >>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Water heaters >>> >>> I have a tankless for 10 years now and love it. I would replace a tank >>> heater with a tankless any time. We have semi-hard water. City water, >>> combination of river/well. Wife would like a watersoftener, I think it's >>> fine. >>> >>> For our 2 person household, it's been perfect. Once you are in the shower, >>> you never have to adjust the temperature no matter how long you stay in. >>> When my sister came to visit, she commented 'How do you know when to get >>> out? The water never gets cold" >>> >>> However, Caveats they don't tell you about when using a tankless (At least >>> my 10 year old model). >>> >>> It won't get as hot as a tank heater. On ours, you set the output >>> temperature, recommended is 120 degrees, it will adjust the flow to get you >>> to that temp. It can fill a tub, or the washing machine without a problem. >>> but you notice a flow decrease when you try to do both at once. If you >>> want to sanitize with only water temperature, tankless is not the way to >>> go. >>> >>> It really does not like On/Off operation. If you are the kind of person >>> who rinses their dishes with 1 or 2 second bursts from the faucet, it will >>> never get hot. Our dishwasher fills like that, so it always send the >>> waterheater into a burner ignition failure (that it recovers from as soon >>> as sustained water is drawn) The dishwasher has it's own internal heater >>> that raises the water temp, so that's not a problem. >>> >>> If your spouse turns off the shower, and you jump right in, You will have >>> about 5 seconds of ice cold water at some point during your shower. The >>> water that didn't get heated yet as it went through the heater as it was >>> firing up the burner. >>> >>> Someone running cold water in the house has no affect on temperature, >>> someone running hotwater will dramatically change your temp, as suddenly >>> the hot flow is decreased until the heater burner ramps up to increase the >>> output again. Same when the other hot flow is turned off, you will get >>> really hot. >>> >>> I de-scale my heater every 6 months. They didn't tell me to do it when I >>> got it, and it stopped working after a year. I use 5 gallons of vinegar >>> and a 1/6hp pump in a 5 gallon bucket. The heater has built in bypass >>> valves that make it super simple to hook up. Just let the pump run the >>> vinegar through for an hour (there are manufactures directions on how to do >>> it) >>> >>> >>> >>> On 11/29/2020 10:47 AM, Colin Stanners wrote: >>>> FYI, quick pricing example for the above >>>> 2x Eccotemp 45HI-NG ( I can't find the -NG on Amazon easily but just for >>>> reference here's the very similar but not compatible -LP version >>>> https://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-45HI-LP-Indoor-Propane-Tankless/dp/B00K2XLJIW/ >>>> ) $530 USD each >>>> 2x Descaling/service valve kits (not the Eccotemp model but these seem to >>>> be compatible) >>>> https://www.amazon.com/Hydro-Master-Isolator-Tankless-Pressure/dp/B07KVCFT2K/ >>>> $60 USD each >>>> 2x 4inch class III stainless steel vertical vent kits, with additional >>>> piping as needed - depends greatly on your house but I'm assuming $1000 >>>> total >>>> 1x device interconnect cable - I thought that these models were able to be >>>> ganged, can't find the serial cable to do so but I assume it'd be <$50. >>>> 1x descaling kit >>>> https://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-EZ-Flush-System-Descaler-Cleaning/dp/B01MY7AJ9D >>>> $150 >>>> >>>> By far the biggest cost would be the labour to replace the old chimney / >>>> galvanized B vent with the new class III stainless steel piping x2. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 10:10 AM Colin Stanners <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Steve, no feces involvement here but I've been looking into water heaters >>>>> quite a bit for a project. >>>>> >>>>> For the hard water, instead or in addition to the water softener you may >>>>> want to look into putting one of these into your hot water path. >>>>> https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000NKETXQ/ I wouldn't put it in the general >>>>> cold water path - while polyphosphates are safe for consumption from what >>>>> I can see, and I'd trust 3M to vet them well, I try to not add much to >>>>> drinking water, and cold water is usually mostly what is used for >>>>> drinking. Maybe check your plumbing if it's possible to add that device >>>>> to the cold water path for everywhere except the kitchen sink, where >>>>> drinking water is usually taken. The $80 USD price is almost "too good to >>>>> be true" compared to a water softener but the reviews suggest that it >>>>> works well without downsides. The cartridges are $50 each and supposedly >>>>> last 6 months. >>>>> >>>>> If the chimney leaks it could be a simple fix to the rain cap or >>>>> flashing, did you inspect it? WISP experience is at least useful for >>>>> judging if it's sealed well to the roof or if the structure of the rain >>>>> cap is good in strong wind. >>>>> >>>>> I would recommend doing lots of math before assuming a solar system can >>>>> run an electric water heater for a busy family - it takes a ton of >>>>> electricity to create heat, which is why tank electric heaters take 2x-3x >>>>> as much time to recover from a cold tank as gas heaters. I don't think >>>>> you'd want family members to wait 1-2 hours for a hot shower after >>>>> someone else used all the water. As a reference, the bigger tankless >>>>> heaters use a reasonable amount of gas (~150-200K BTU) but they take an >>>>> inordinate, almost frightening, amount of electricity, ~36kW. >>>>> >>>>> Tankless math starts with available GPM (from temperature rise chart). >>>>> IIRC you're in Illinois, where groundwater temp averages 47 deg F (8 deg >>>>> C in the developed countries). Assuming that you want 120 deg water >>>>> output from the tankless heater, that's 73 deg F temp rise. That's on the >>>>> higher end for a tankless heater. If we look at the Eccotemp 45HI-NG >>>>> natural gas tankless water heater, their biggest model at ~140K BTU, the >>>>> chart says that at that temp rise it can do 2GPM, so one low-flow shower. >>>>> If you want to run a high-flow shower and a sink, or 2 showers at the >>>>> same time, you'd need to buy 2 units and the serial cable between them >>>>> that allows them to run intelligently in parallel (reducing the "not >>>>> activating at low water flow" problem by having just one of them, not >>>>> both, operate in low flow conditions). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 12:35 AM Steve Jones <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> You guys all do different weird shit. Went to drain my gas heater tonite >>>>>> (may have put that maintenance off longer than intended) >>>>>> We are quarry country so we have super hard water. Needless to say tanks >>>>>> full of baked in sediment and when I cleared the valve I may have >>>>>> cracked the liner, about every ten seconds I'm getting a drip on the >>>>>> burner, and my pop off is dripping, probably some sediment. >>>>>> >>>>>> The water heater is the only thing I have that vents hot anymore and my >>>>>> chimney leaks in driving rain. Is rather just bash it in and put a >>>>>> dumbwaiter in the chase. I have the two fresh kids that I bet would have >>>>>> a blast riding that. >>>>>> >>>>>> Power vent gas looks to almost double the cost. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tankless is looking almost comparable in price for gas, so I'm curious >>>>>> if any of you guys run them without major water softener and filters. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm planning on solar in the next 5 or 6 years when I redo my roof so >>>>>> electric would be the thing I go with on the water heater after the one >>>>>> I'm gonna have to put in now. >>>>>> >>>>>> I like gas water heaters because I know how to fix them, parts are >>>>>> cheap, same with my clothes dryers. But theyve priced themselves into me >>>>>> looking at my options. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tankless I dont know how to calculate gpm needs. But what led to this >>>>>> was taking the flow reducer out of my low flow shower head and running >>>>>> out of hot water in 20 minutes. I start my day by scalding myself for >>>>>> about a half hour cause I'm a filthy bastard and need to be cleansed of >>>>>> my sins. >>>>>> We have 2 bathrooms and a girl hitting her teens, so I assume we may be >>>>>> getting into a shower and bath coming on at the same time and the wife >>>>>> knowing what's good for her and washing dishes. >>>>>> She wont let me put a wood stove and still in the bathroom, so wood >>>>>> fired shower options are out. >>>>>> Are residential boilers a thing? All my walls had pocket doors so I have >>>>>> plenty of room for radiant walls, I dont know if boiler heat it even >>>>>> efficient though. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > Lewis Bergman > 325-439-0533 Cell > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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